>> HELLO AGAIN.

ALVIN REID, BILL McCLELLAN JOINING YOU WITH DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

WE'RE JOINED TONIGHT BY DR. SEAN JOE, PROFESSOR AT THE BROWN SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN ST. LOUIS, NOTED EXPERT ON KIDS AND VIOLENCE AND IMPACT OF VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS.

UNFORTUNATELY, TRAGEDY IN TEXAS ON TUESDAY LEAVES US IN NEED OF, YOU KNOW, SOME EXPLANATION AND WHAT CAN WE DO.

I'M PUTTING THAT ALL ON YOU BECAUSE THAT'S QUITE A PLATEFUL, BUT YOUR THOUGHTS WHAT HAPPENED AND SHOULD HAPPEN IN THE AFTERMATH.

>> THERE'S TWO POINTS OF THIS.

ONE, WE'RE SADDENED FOR THE FAMILIES AND LOSS OF LIFE AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN WHO HAVEN'T SEEN ESCAPED THEIR FIRST DECADE OF LIFE.

SO WE HAVE TO BE COMPASSIONATE WITH THOSE FAMILIES AND THE GRIEVING AND BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR SIBLINGS AND PEERS WHO ALSO NOW ARE IN RISK OF SIGNIFICANT TRAUMA THAT THIS LEVEL OF VIOLENCE AND DEATH THEY'VE BEEN EXPOSED TO.

AND THEN WE'RE BACK TO OUR CONVERSATION: WHAT DO WE DO TO TRY TO PREVENT THIS IN THE FUTURE?

THERE'S A LOT FOR US TO CONSIDER.

THERE'S A LOT OF -- ENOUGH BLAME AND SHAME TO GO AROUND, BUT THAT DOES NOT HELP THE NEXT FAMILY, THE NEXT SCHOOL, THE NEXT CHILDREN IF WE DON'T FOCUS ON WHAT WE KNOW AND BEGIN TO APPLY THAT.

>> WELL DR. JOE, WHAT DO WE KNOW AND WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

I HAVE TWO GRANDCHILDREN ATTENDING A GRADE SCHOOL IN WEBSTER GROVES.

WHAT SPECIFICALLY CAN WE DO TO LESSEN THE THREAT OF A SCHOOL SHOOTING?

>> WELL, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS WE CAN DEFINITELY THINK ABOUT.

ONE, WE TRY TO MAKE SURE THOSE WHO ARE COMING IN AND OUT OF OUR BUILDINGS, WE HAVE SOME CONTROL AND KNOWLEDGE OF WHO'S COMING AND GOING, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN.

TWO, WE CAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE ANY LEVEL OF SCREENING TO IDENTIFY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE PARTICULARLY DISTRESSED, PARTICULARLY IF YOU HAVE A YOUNG PERSON WHO MIGHT WANT TO DO OTHERS AT THE SCHOOL HARM.

IN THESE SORT OF SITUATIONS, WE KNOW ONE THINGS THAT KNEES ARE MASS SHOOTINGS, WHICH MEANS FOUR OR MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED AND WE KNOW THE INSTRUMENT USED FOR THOSE MUST BE ABLE TO CAUSE HARM IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND WE KNOW ACCESS MATTERS, NO MATTER WHAT.

ONE OF THE REASONS WE DON'T ALL HAVE ACCESS TO DYNAMITE IS BECAUSE THE COUNTRY KNOWS THIS IS NOT SOMETHING EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO.

ONE THE REASONS WE MAKE SURE CERTAIN COUNTRIES DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, BECAUSE WE DON'T FEEL, AGAIN, THAT THESE ARE COUNTRIES WHO WOULD DEFINITELY DO IT HARM, SO WE TRY TO KEEP ACCESS AWAY.

SO I THINK ACCESS TO FIREARMS IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN DO TO REDUCE THE CHANCES OF MASS SHOOTINGS.

IT WOULDN'T ELIMINATE THE OTHER DAY-TO-DAY HOMICIDES AND VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVE, BUT IT WOULD ELIMINATE THE MASS KILLINGS WE SEE, THE 15, THE 17.

THE NUMBERS ARE OVERWHELMING AND BECAUSE THAT'S THEY'RE FIREARMS THAT ALLOW AN INDIVIDUAL TO CARRY THAT OUT NO MATTER HOW ILL OR HOW MALICIOUS OR PSYCHOPATH THICK -- PSYCH SO PATHIC THAT PERSON IS.

>> WELL, DR. CALVIN ADAMS WAS PREPARED TO WRITE AN END OF SCHOOL LETTER THAT WAS GOING TO GO HOME TO THE PARENTS ON WEDNESDAY AND IT WAS GOING TO THANK THEM FOR THE TWO YEARS OF GETTING THROUGH THE PANDEMIC AND ALL THE HARD WORK AND IT HAD BEEN DIFFICULT.

HE HAD TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS.

I WANT TO ASK YOU LIKE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THIS HAPPENED RIGHT AT THE END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR, PEOPLE ARE NOW LIKE LEAVING SCHOOL AND WOULD IT HAVE BEEN BETTER IN A WAY IF CHILDREN AND SCHOOLS AND WHATNOT COULD HAVE GONE BACK TO SCHOOL A FEW DAYS AND DISCUSSED IT AND KIND OF MAYBE, YOU KNOW, GOT SOME OF THE FEAR ALLEVIATED AS OPPOSED TO JUST, YOU HAVE TO NOW JUST THINK ABOUT THIS ALL SUMMER.

>> WELL, WE THINK ABOUT IT A LOT.

WE THINK ABOUT BUFFALO THAT HAPPENED THE WEEK BEFORE.

>> YES, TRUE.

>> SO FOR THE YOUNGER CHILDREN, MANY OF THEM I DON'T THINK ARE REALLY EXPOSED TO THIS.

I HAVE A 6-YEAR-OLD AND SHE'S NOT EXPOSED TO THIS.

I'M NOT AS CONCERNED ABOUT THE YOUNGER CHILDREN.

THE TEENAGERS AND OTHERS, AGAIN, WE WANT TO CREATE A SPACE WITH DIALOGUE, SHOULD THEY WANT TO HAVE A DIALOGUE, CREATE A SPACE IF THEY EXHIBIT SOME LEVEL OF FEAR OR CONCERN.

I THINK THE BIGGEST IMPACT IS REALLY ON THE ADULTS AND THE ABILITY TO KIND OF STRIKE FEAR AMONG ADULTS.

BUT FOR OUR CHILDREN AND WHAT WE'RE DOING, YES, WE WANT TO CREATE SPACE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

SHOULD WE HAVE CHILDREN IN OUR SCHOOLS THAT MIGHT BE THINKING THIS WAY?

I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO COMMUNICATE GENERALLY, BUT FOR OUR YOUNGER CHILDREN, I THINK VERY FEW OF THEM UNLESS THEY'RE VERY CLOSE TO THIS ARE GOING TO BE EXPOSED TO A LEVEL OF TRAUMA THAT THIS PARTICULAR MASS KILLING REPRESENTS.

>> I'M GOING TO FOLLOW UP, BILL, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

>> SURE.

>> JUST IN THE LAST 48 HOURS AMONGST YOUR PEERS, HAVE THERE BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT MAYBE THIS TIME IT MIGHT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, TURN THAT PENDULUM JUST A LITTLE BIT, OR ARE YOU -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WALKING UP A STEEP HILL?

>> I THINK WE'RE WALKING UP A STEEP HILL.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF MY COLLEAGUES, WE RECOGNIZE THAT ALTHOUGH THE EVIDENCE WOULD SUGGEST -- ONE OF THE THINGS, WE DON'T WANT TO BLAME MENTAL ILLNESS ALONE FOR THIS.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THE PERSON IS MENTALLY ILL IN A WAY WE TRADITIONALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

THIS PERSON COULD BE MALICIOUS, NARCISSISTIC, HATE.

st -- HATEFUL.

AGAIN WLOU MATCH THAT WITH ANGER, IT CAN LEAD TO MASS SHOOTINGS IN THIS WAY.

AM I OPTIMISTIC?

I'M OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE WE'RE A DEMOCRACY AND YOU CAN CHANGE LEADERSHIP AND IF YOU CHANGE LEADERSHIP THAT'S WILLING TO STEP INTO THIS SPACE TO REALIZE THAT THESE SORT OF THINGS ARE PREVENTABLE IF YOU KEEP THE MEANS OF MASS INJURY AWAY FROM INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT BE -- NOT ONLY HAVE SOME PROCLIVITY TO ENGAGE IN THAT IS CORRECT BUT JUST GENERALLY HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT LEVEL OF MILITARY WEAPON OR ANYTHING CLOSE TO IT DOESN'T REALLY NEED TO BE IN CIVILIAN HANDS.

AND WE SEE THIS IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THEIR REACTION.

AUSTRALIA, ENGLAND, WHEN THEY HAVE AT LEAST ONE.

THEY CHANGE THAT ACCESS AND THEIR FIREARM VIOLENCE GOES DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY.

SIGNIFICANTLY.

THEY HAVE GREAT ACCESS TO SPORTS AND INCLUDING FIREARM, BUT THEY DON'T LET IT BE A GENERAL ACCESS TO THE PUBLIC AND THEY DON'T HAVE WHAT WE HAVE.

ONE MASS SHOOTING EVERY DAY?

THAT'S WHAT WE AVERAGE.

4% OF THE GLOBAL POPULATION IS THE U.S. POPULATION, BUT 42% OF MAT SHOOTINGS ACROSS THE GLOBE IS ACCOUNTED FOR BY AMERICANS.

THAT'S VERY TELLING.

>> YOU KNOW, I USED TO ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ONLY DO WHAT THE NATIONAL WILL WILL ALLOW YOU TO DO, AND I WOULD SAY THAT MAYBE WE COULD ELIMINATE THE HIGH -- THE MASS MAGAZINES, YOU KNOW.

THERE'S NO REASON FOR A SPORTSMAN TO HAVE 18 ROUNDS OR 25 ROUNDS IN A MAGAZINE.

BUT I HAVE FRIENDS WHO SAY TO ME, THAT'S SUCH A HALF MEASURE.

MAYBE THEY'LL ONLY BE ABLE TO KILL SEVEN INSTEAD OF 14.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE ANSWER IS TO ELIMINATE ASSAULT RIFLES IN CIVILIAN HANDS?

>> OH, I THOUGHT THAT -- I'M JUST GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN.

I DO THINK THAT'S A VIABLE OPTION.

IT'S THE ACCESS TO THE MEANS.

>> AND YOU THINK WE HAVE THE NATIONAL WILL TO DO THAT?

>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE NATIONAL WILL TO DO THAT, BUT THE QUESTION IS DO WE HAVE THE MORAL WILL TO DO IT.

DO WE FEEL COMPELLED THAT HOW MANY MORE CHILDREN, AS ONE PERSON SAID TO ME TODAY, HOW MANY MORE CHILDREN HAVE TO LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES JUST FOR A SELECT FEW TO HAVE ACCESS TO MILITARY-TYPE WEAPONS.

HOW MANY MORE CHILDREN HAVE TO LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES JUST FOR AN INDUSTRY TO MAKE EXCESS PROFIT IN THE LAST -- EVEN DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THAT'S THE FIREARM INDUSTRY.

I DON'T KNOW WHY CHILDREN HAVE TO LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES JUST TO MAKE A SMALL CHANGE THAT ANY SPORTSMAN WANTS TO TEST THEIR SKILL, YOU DON'T NEED 15, 18, 32 MAGAZINES TO TEST YOUR SKILL.

YOU WANT TO AIM AND SHOOT AND IMPROVE YOUR SKILLS.

MY POINT IS WE DON'T NEED THIS TYPE OF MILITARY WEAPON ACCESS ON OUR STREETS.

WE'VE ONLY SEEN MASS KILLINGS COME FROM IT AND THEY HAVE BEEN INCREASING.

SO I DON'T ASK MYSELF.

I JUST ASK LEADERSHIP TO SAY WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

AND THE IDEA THAT YOU WILL SUGGEST THAT IT'S JUST ONE'S MINDSET, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE OR HAVE THE ABILITY TO IDENTIFY SOMEONE WHO'S REALLY HAVING THIS SORT OF INTERNAL TURMOIL AND ANGER.

THAT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO, YOU DON'T HAVE MASS KNIFINGS.

YOU DON'T HAVE MASS BLUDGEONINGS.

YOU ONLY HAVE MASS SHOOLTINGS.

IT'S THE WEAPON THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE.

>> YOU MENTIONED LEADERSHIP.

YOU TOOK PART IN A BRIEFING, IMPACT OF WEAPONS ON VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS AND SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES.

YOU'RE THERE AND CONGRESS PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO YOU.

DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE GETTING SOME KIND OF RESPONSE AND JUST TAKE US THROUGH WHAT YOU ALL DISCUSSED AND WHEN IT WAS OVER, YOU SAID, BOY, I SAW A LOT OF HEADS NODDING, BUT I DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, HE'S ON TO SOMETHING THERE.

>> MY PARTICULAR POINT THERE WAS TO HELP THE CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP AND OTHERS UNDERSTAND THAT A SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION OF GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY IS ALL SELF-DIRECTED VIOLENCE AND SUICIDE.

THAT ACCOUNTS FOR MOST OF THE GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE THINK ABOUT CHILDREN OR YOUNG PEOPLE, OUR UNCLES AND FATHERS AND WE THINK ABOUT FIREARM VIOLENCE, AGAIN, A MAJORITY OF IT IS SUICIDES OR FIREARM-RELATED SUICIDES.

SO THAT WAS MY KEY POINT.

I SAW A LOT OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BECAUSE MANY INDIVIDUALS DON'T UNDERSTAND IT OR KNOW THAT.

THE OTHER FORMS OF VIOLENCE, WHICH IS MUCH MORE PUBLICIZED, AGAIN, SUICIDES ACCOUNT FOR MOST OF THE FIREARM VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE'VE KNOWN THIS FOR A LONG TIME, BUT WHAT IS PUBLICIZED, WHAT IMPACTS FEAR IS THE IDEA OF INTERPERSONAL VIOLENCE, HOMICIDE.

THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE.

IT'S A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR YOUNG BLACK MALES AND WE KNOW THAT, BUT SIMILARLY, SUICIDE, PARTICULARLY GUN-RELATED SUICIDES CAUSE THE DEATH OF YOUNG WHITE MALES, YOUNG ASIAN MALES AND YOUNG BLACK MALES.

THAT WAS MY MAIN POINT IN MAKING SURE THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT.

WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE THREAT OR CONSEQUENCE OF VIOLENCE, AND PARTICULARLY SCHOOL-RELATED VIOLENCE AND DISCUSSED SOME MEASURES TAKEN OVER THE YEARS.

WHETHER FROM THE DAYS OF METAL DETECTORS TO THE CASE OF INCREASED MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR OUR STUDENTS AND SCHOOL-BASED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES.

YOU NEED A COMBINATION OF THINGS TO BE PUT IN PLACE FOR THIS TO BE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF AT LEAST HELPING A TROUBLED YOUNG PERSON BE IDENTIFIED AND FIND SOME HELP OR IN TERMS OF JUST RESPONDING TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF VIOLENCE AND EXPOSURE TO VIOLENCE.

BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE SHARED AND IN MY LAST FIVE YEARS OR SO, I'M BEGINNING TO SEE AN INCREASED AWARENESS OF MENTAL HEALTH INTEREST AND PROVIDING CARE AND MAKING SURE SCHOOL-BASED CARE OR COMMUNITY-BASED CARE, INCREASED ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH CARE AND TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A WORKFORCE FOR THIS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE IS GROWING NEED.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THE WORKFORCE, WHETHER IT'S SOCIAL WORKERS TO BE TRAINED OR PSYCHOLOGISTS, WE HAVE A DEARTH.

TRY TO FIND A PSYCHOLOGIST IN ST. LOUIS FOR A YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> UNTIL YOU JUST SAID THAT, I DID NOT KNOW THAT.

>> IT'S A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY FEW WHO CAN PRESCRIBE THE MEDICATION AND THOSE WHO DELIVER THE CARE OFTEN ARE PSYCHOTHERAPYISTS.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A SCHOOL COUNSELOR PSYCHOLOGIST.

AGAIN, WE'RE STRUGGLING TO FILL THIS GAP, THIS NEED, AND THE NEED IS GROWING.

>> IN THE NEWSPAPER BUSINESS, WE VERY SELDOM REPORT SUICIDES.

ONE REASON IS FEAR OF COPYCATS, ESPECIALLY WITH YOUNG PEOPLE, THAT IF THIS PERSON GETS IN THE PAPER BECAUSE HE OR SHE COMMITTED SUICIDE, THEN OTHER CHILDREN MIGHT DO IT.

BUT I WAS COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF THIS STAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT THERE ARE MORE DEATHS BY SUICIDE WITH FIREARMS THAN MURDERS WITH FIREARMS?

>> CORRECT.

CORRECT.

>> AND THAT'S TRUE FOR, LIKE, PEOPLE UNDER 18?

>> YES, THAT'S -- YES, IT IS.

>> OKAY.

>> BUT OVERALL, THERE ARE -- OVERALL, GENERALLY, EVEN IN MISSOURI.

AGAIN, MISSOURI HAS THIS BIFURCATED SORT OF EXPERIENCE.

IF YOU LIVE IN THE URBAN AREAS, HOMICIDE IS MORE PREVALENT.

IF YOU LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF MISSOURI IN THE RURAL AREAS, SUICIDE IS MORE PREVALENT.

>> OVERALL, MORE SUICIDES THAN -- >> SUICIDES ACCOUNT FOR MORE -- THE FIREARM DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, IT'S SUICIDES ACCOUNT FOR MOST OF THOSE DEATHS.

>> I JUST -- I BELIEVE HAD NO IDEA.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

OKAY.

YOU MENTIONED BUFFALO JUST A LITTLE BIT AND I JUST READ THIS TODAY, THAT IN THE -- SINCE THE SHOOTINGS IN BUFFALO, YOUNG BLACK MEN WHO HAVE A TENDENCY TO KILL EACH OTHER THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES, THERE'S HARDLY BEEN ANY -- OR MAYBE NOT ANY MURDERS IN BUFFALO AND A LOT LESS IN NEW YORK SINCE THIS HAPPENED.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THAT JUST -- IT'S ALMOST LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE LET'S KIND OF DECLARE A TRUCE ON EACH OTHER WHILE WE ALL MOURN WHAT HAPPENED, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT WOULDN'T -- >> I DON'T KNOW -- AGAIN, I'M LISTENING TO YOU.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE STATS FOR THE CITY OF BUFFALO, THAT THEY HAD ABSOLUTELY NO MURDERS IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, THAT'S GREAT, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THIS SORT OF TRAUMA THAT THE COMMUNITY IS EXPERIENCING, WHEN ANY HOUSEHOLD FEELS ATTACKED, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TEND NOT TO ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER DURING THAT -- JUST THINK OF YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD.

THERE'S AN ATTACK, NO MATTER WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS A MINUTE AGO, ALL OF A SUDDEN FAMILY RECOGNIZES THAT YOU HAVE TO FOCUS.

I CAN SEE THAT SORT OF PROCESS HAPPENING, BUT BUFFALO, TEXAS, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, FLORIDA, THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, THAT WE SEE THIS LEVEL OF MASS KILLINGS AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS -- WE SHOULD HAVE A NATIONAL GROWING CONCERN AND FEAR, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE SHOULD REALLY BE DEMANDING THAT THIS -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO SOLVE ALL ISSUES.

ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CAN DO SIMPLY JUST TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHO HAS ACCESS TO THESE TYPE OF WEAPONS.

WE HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THESE WEAPONS ARE KIND OF EITHER LOST OR STOLEN AND ILLEGAL TRADE THAT'S IMPLIED WITH THAT IN TERMS OF GETTING PEOPLE ACCESS TO THESE GUNS.

I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO THINK ABOUT.

AGAIN, WE KNOW THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S SUICIDAL, IF THEY HAVE A FIREARM, THEY'RE 95% CHANCE THEY'RE GOING TO DIE.

IF THEY HAVE ANY OTHER MEANS, 5% CHANCE THEY'RE GOING TO DIE.

THE MEANS MATTER.

>> PEOPLE I KNOW ARE JUST SO FRUSTRATED RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, THE SHOOTING IN TEXAS, THE SHOOTING IN BUFFALO, AND WHAT CAN A PERSON DO?

LIKE FOR INSTANCE, I LIVE IN CORI BUSH'S DISTRICT.

I KNOW THAT CORI BUSH SUPPORTS GUN CONTROL LAWS, BUT IF YOU LIVE IN ANN WAGNER'S DISTRICT, THE CHANCES OF GETTING CONGRESSMAN WAGNER TO COME TO GUN CONTROL ARE VERY SLIM AND IN MISSOURI, ERIC GREITENS WHO IS APPARENTLY LEADING IN THE POLLS NOW, IS ON TV SHOOTING, BLASTING AWAY.

WHAT CAN A PERSON DO?

I MEAN, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN MOVE THIS WHOLE THING FORWARD?

>> YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THE LEADERSHIP HAS A CRITICAL ROLE THAT WE ENTRUSTED THEM TO HAVE, BUT IT'S REALLY THE VOTERS.

THE VOTERS HAVE TO DECIDE.

THE VOTERS HAVE TO DECIDE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

FIRST, THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT IS.

IF YOU TELL THEM IT'S JUST MENTAL ILLNESS AND YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT, AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE AN INDIVIDUAL MIGHT BE DISTRESSED DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO PICK UP A FIREARM AND SHOOT ANYONE.

THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENS WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.

THESE ARE SELECT FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE VERY SPECIFIC HATE, HURT, NARCISSISM, THAT WANT TO ENGAGE IN THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR.

BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE ONLY ABLE TO HAVE MASS IMPACT IF THEY HAVE A FIREARM THAT CAN CAUSE MASS HARM.

SO I THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO VOTE AND DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES.

MY OPINION RIGHT NOW, SANDY HOOK IS JUST -- HOW MUCH MORE CHILDREN HAVE TO DIE BEFORE WE MAKE A SMALL DECISION THAT YOU'RE NOT ELIMINATING ANYONE'S ACCESS TO USE FIREARMS OR BEAR ARMS.

YOU JUST ELIMINATING THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE THIS SORT OF RIFLE, THIS MILITARY SORT OF RIFLE AND ACCESS TO IT, PARTICULARLY IN A GENERAL PUBLIC SETTING.

I JUST THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN AGREE THAT WE DON'T NEED AND IF YOU REALLY NEED IT, YOU CAN GO GET TRAINED ON IT AND FIND A SPECIAL PLACE TO USE THAT.

BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE ONE OF THOSE THINGS YOU CAN JUST WALK AND BUY LIKE THIS 18-YEAR-OLD JUST WALKED IN THERE DAYS BEFORE, BOUGHT THE FIREARM, HAD INTENT, NOW I HAVE A MEANS.

WITHOUT THAT, HE COULDN'T CARRY OUT MASS KILLINGS LIKE THAT.

HE COULD HAVE HURT SOMEONE, BUT NOT KILLED -- YOU TALKING ABOUT SIX 10-YEAR-OLDS.

>> I JUST WANT TO TOUCH ON YOU A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THIS IS -- YOU KNOW, I WAS NOT AWARE OF YOUR WORK UNTIL WE STARTED, YOU KNOW, RESEARCHING INTO YOU FOR THE SHOW.

ARE YOU ORIGINALLY FROM ST. LOUIS OR HOW DID YOU GET TO ST. LOUIS AND TELL US YOUR STORY?

>> SURE.

I'M ORIGINALLY FROM NEW YORK, FROM BROOKLYN, NEW YORK -- >> YOU KIND OF HAVE AN ACCENT.

>> I DO, BUT -- [ LAUGHTER ] >> YEAH, KIND OF THAT.

>> NOT BIG.

I SPENT MANY YEARS IN CHAMPAIGN AND THEN MICHIGAN, SO IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME.

BUT I CAME TO ST. LOUIS REALLY FOCUSED ON ONE THING AND I WANTED TO JOIN A NETWORK OF ORGANIZATIONS WHO WANTED TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO OVER A 20-YEAR PERIOD TO INCREASE THE ECONOMIC MOBILITY OF THIS ENTIRE POPULATION OF BLACK MALES 12 TO 29.

YOU KNOW, JUST DOING AN ANALYSIS, ST. LOUIS ONLY HAS ABOUT 60,000 BLACK MALES -- 60,000 IN THAT AGE GROUP AND THAEPS THE CRITICAL AGE GROUP WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE OUTCOMES FOR.

I CAME HERE WITH A GROUP WHO SAID IF WE CHANGE THE OUTCOMES FOR THAT POPULATION, YOU CHANGE THIS WHOLE CITY.

YOU CHANGE THE IMPACT OF CRIME, SOCIAL DISORDER, ATTRACTION OF TALENT TO THE REGION AND COMPANIES.

SO I'M HERE NOW COMMITTING TO THIS LONG-TERM VISION.

WE'VE BEEN AT IT FOR SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS, REALLY FOCUSING -- THE PROJECT IS CALLED HOMEGROWN BECAUSE ANY PROBLEM ST. LOUIS HAS IS BECAUSE ST. LOUIS CREATED IT.

SO ANY PROBLEM -- ANY SOLUTION ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO COME UP WITH HAS GOT TO BE HOMEGROWN.

>> FORMER U OF I STUDENT THERE.

>> GREW UP IN CHICAGO.

>> GREW UP IN CHICAGO.

THEN YOU SAID CHAMPAIGN AND MICHIGAN.

MY STOPS, MY FIRST TWO NEWSPAPERS WERE DANVILLE, ILLINOIS, RIGHT UP THE ROAD FROM CHAMPAIGN AND THEN I WENT TO LANSING.

WHERE WERE YOU IN MICHIGAN?

>> I WAS UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS.

>> HE WAS AT THE BIG SCHOOL.

>> IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE OUR EFFORTS IN ST. LOUIS HAS COME TO MUCH FRUITION.

I MEAN, WE SHOULD -- THERE'S STILL A HUGE PROBLEM OF VIOLENCE IN THIS CITY AND WE'VE TRIED THIS CURE VIOLENCE PROGRAM.

IT CAME OUT OF CHICAGO, MAKING ME SKEPTICAL OF IT, AND YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR SEVEN YEARS.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANY PROGRESS?

>> WELL, I HAVE.

AGAIN, I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC ON ST. LOUIS, ABOUT ST. LOUIS AND ITS FUTURE.

JUST A NUMBER OF INITIATIVES THAT CAME OUT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THIS.

YOU KNOW, GROWING UP IN NEW YORK, SEEING THE EAST COAST, SEEING THE RESPONSES.

THESE THINGS DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT, SO WE SHOULDN'T EXPECT ANY CURE TO BE IMPACTFUL OVERNIGHT.

THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, OUR VISION IS THIS IS GOING TO TAKE ABOUT 20 YEARS OF COORDINATED, COMPREHENSIVE EFFORT TO BRING THIS ABOUT.

WHEN I SEE ORGANIZATIONS TALKING AND FOCUSING ON THIS POPULATION, YOU KNOW, ST. LOUIS IS AN INTERESTING SPACE.

SO YOU HAVE TO ORGANIZE FOR THE OUTCOMES THAT YOU WANT.

SO RIGHT NOW, WE'RE ORGANIZED FOR THE OUTCOMES THAT WE GET.

SO UNTIL WE STEP INTO THE SPACE AND LET CURE VIOLENCE PLAY ITS ROLE, BECAUSE THAT'S ONLY ONE PART OF IT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THERE'S ENOUGH JOBS FOR THESE YOUNG MEN AND HOW DO YOU HELP THEM TO NAVIGATE THE SYSTEMS, BIASED OR UNBIASED, HOW YOU MIGHT SEE IT, BUT YOU HAVE THEM CONNECTED TO THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AND STAY IN THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.

THEN AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW CAN THE ECONOMIC HEALTH AND WEALTH OF ST. LOUIS BENEFIT ALL?

HOW DO WE STEP INTO THAT?

BECAUSE WE WON'T LOSE ANYTHING, WE'LL ONLY GAINS ABOUT -- ONLY GAIN.

BUT TO DO THIS WORK, IT TAKES METICULOUS AND INTENTIONAL FOCUS.

ONE REASON YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD OF US IS WE'RE JUST WORKING WITH THOSE WHO DO THE WORK.

OUR GOAL IS TO SET UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE(O))ED TO FIND THESE YOUNG MAILS, HELP THEM ACKNOWLEDGE THEY HAVE ELITE POTENTIAL.

IT MIGHT NOT BE ON FULL DISPLAY RIGHT NOW, BUT THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE.

HOW DO WE HELP THEM TO DO THAT?

THE REGION CAN ONLY BENEFIT IF THEY'RE ECONOMICALLY BETTER OFF.

WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE DATA-DRIVEN DECISION MAKING, BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE HAVE GOOD ACCESS TO WHAT WORKS AND A NATIONAL NETWORK OF SCHOLARS WHO CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND, WHETHER IT'S HOUSING, WHETHER IT'S FOOD, WHETHER IT'S JOBS, HOW YOU KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL, HOW TO MAKE SURE THEY STAY IN EMPLOYED, THE RIGHT LEVEL OF WAGES THAT PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND FAMILIES.

THIS IS A CONVERSATION I THINK ST. LOUIS IS ABOUT TO HAVE AND THERE'S BEEN MANY DEALING WITH THIS EQUITY ISSUE, SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO COME TO A POINT IN THE NEXT THREE TO FIVE YEARS WHERE ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO BE A NATIONAL DEMONSTRATION OF HOW YOU DO THIS.

I JUST SEE THE PIECES OF IT AND THE CONVERSATIONS THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE MICHAEL BROWN'S DEATH, SO I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT WHAT CAN HAPPEN.

>> AND YOU'RE A PRAGMATIST.

I HEAR YOU.

THE NUMBER OF 60,000, THAT'S IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

>> THAT'S THE CITY AND COUNTY COMBINED.

>> COMPARED TO NEW YORK, COMPARED TO CHICAGO, COMPARED TO LOS ANGELES, I DON'T WANT TO SAY FIXABLE NUMBER, BUT THAT'S A NUMBER THAT CAN BE REACHED.

>> I GREW UP IN NEW YORK, THAT'S A COUPLE OF BLOCKS IN NEW YORK.

YOU TALKING THE ENTIRE POPULATION, EVEN WITH THE CURRENT CENSUS, I'M GOING TO ROUND UP AND I'M ROUNDING UP TO 60,000.

ACTUALLY ABOUT 52, 53, AND IF I REALLY THINK THERE'S AN UNDERCOUNT IN CENSUS, WHICH I KNOW IT IS, SO IT'S ABOUT 60,000.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT -- AND WHEN YOU BREAK IT DOWN TO YOUNG MEN 18 TO 29, YOU'RE TALKING NOW ABOUT 35/25.

SO THE IDEA OF FINDING JOBS AND PATHWAYS TO WORK, WE CAN SOLVE THAT.

YOU'RE NOT TALKING MILLIONS.

YOU'RE NOT TALKING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

YOU'RE TALKING TENS OF THOUSANDS.

THIS IS THE POPULATION THAT WE HAVE TO HELP, AND AGAIN, TO BECOME MORE RESPONSIBLE FATHERS, ECONOMICALLY MOBILE MEN ARE MORE RESPONSIBLE FATHERS.

THEY'RE BETTER ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN.

THEY PUT THEM ON THE PATHWAY TO BEING BETTER OFF THAN THEY WERE.

THE SAME THING EVERYONE WANTS, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT TAKES ALL OF ST. LOUIS TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO INVEST AND DO THIS AND ORGANIZE OURSELVES FOR THE OUTCOMES WE WANT.

>> WELL, THE CITY IS SUDDENLY FLUSH WITH MONEY FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.

THEY HAVE THE NFL MONEY, THE INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY, COVID MONEY.

IS THAT MAKING ANY DIFFERENCE RIGHT NOW?

>> AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN MUCH MORE INTENTIONAL PLANNING, WHICH I APPRECIATE BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE NOT JUST THROWING MONEY AT THE PROBLEM, YOU'RE SAYING WHERE I DO NEED TO INVEST, SO I FEEL THE PROCESS THE CITY HAS GONE THROUGH IS GOING TO LEAD WITH THE DEEPEST INVESTMENT WITH THE MOST IMPACT.

WHAT THEY DO WITH THE NFL, I DON'T KNOW, I TRY TO WATCH YOU GENTLEMEN TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT I THINK, AGAIN, IT GIVES US A LOT MORE RESOURCES TO WORK WITH AND DON'T FORGET WHO ST. LOUIS IS.

YOU THE FIFTH MOST PHILANTHROPIC REGION IN THIS COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE, SO NOW YOU HAVE THIS ADDITIONAL RESOURCES.

THIS IS WHY I'M -- YOU HAVE A MOMENT, WE HAVE A MOM BECAUSE, AGAIN -- WE HAVE A MOMENT, BECAUSE AGAIN, I THINK I'M ONLY HERE FOR SEVEN AND A HALF, AND IS IT 15 OR 20 BEFORE I -- >> I'D SAY SEVEN.

>> I WENT TO COLLEGE AND MOVED AWAY WHEN I WAS 18, I DIDN'T COME BACK TILL I WAS 36.

I SAID I GOT TO GET BACK TO ST. LOUIS, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE MY MEMBERSHIP CARD AWAY.

BEFORE WE GO OUT, IF THERE'S ONE THING NOW WITH THAT MONEY OR WHATEVER, WOULD IT BE, HEY, LET'S GET EVERYBODY IN PRESCHOOL OR LET'S DO THIS AND WE GOT ONE MINUTE LEFT, SO I KNOW YOU CAN PROBABLY SPEND AN HOUR ON ANY ONE CATEGORY.

BUT IF YOU HAD TO JUST START SOMEWHERE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> WELL, WITH -- >> FOR THE 60,000.

>> FOR THE BLACK MALES 60,000, THERE'S TWO THINGS I WOULD PRIORITIZE.

ONE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERY ONE OF THOSE YOUNG MALES HAVE WHAT WE CALL A LIFE COACH.

THEY NEED AN ADDITIONAL SUPPORT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP THEM NAVIGATE ACCESS TO CARE AND SUPPORT AND OPPORTUNITIES THAT'S IN THE REGION AND THEN WORK WITH THEM FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

FROM THEY'RE 12 UNTIL THEY'RE 29.

THAT'S 17 YEARS.

I JUST THINK THIS LEVEL OF SUPPORT, WE'VE SEEN IT IN OTHER PLACES DONE VERY WELL, BUT THE POINT IS YOU'VE GOT TO INVEST IN THESE YOUNG PEOPLE AND MAKE SURE THAT THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY HERE BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO AND CAN USE.

THE OTHER THING IS YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE SOME LEVEL OF FOCUS ON INCREASING THE LEVEL OF YOUNG BLACK MEN WHO ARE ENGAGING OR HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR HOME OWNERSHIP.

AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT HAS CASCADING IMPACT.

I THINK IF WE DO THOSE TWO THINGS, WE'LL BE BETTER OFF.

>> OKAY.

WE GOT TO RUN.

THANK YOU, DR. SEAN JOE, PROFESSOR AT BROWN SCHOOL OF SOCIAL WORK AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I LEARNED A LOT TONIGHT.

I HOPE THE VIEWERS DID TOO.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON DONNYBROOK AND DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.