never did catch Gerri, but it may have been for the better.

We'll explain.

But first, let's back up.

>> The city has undergone many efforts over the years to control Chicago's rat population.

One of which is poison, but that's led to the unintended death of some birds after they ate the dead rats.

team at Lincoln Park Zoo's Urban Wildlife Institute conducted a study to see if cats were also collateral damage in the campaign to control the city's rat population.

Joining us now is set Magli director of the Urban Wildlife Institute at Lincoln Park Zoo.

Seth, thanks for joining us again.

thanks for having me.

is it just that, you know, cats aren't the little mouse traps that we thought they were.

What sort of set you off on this study and what are you looking to find?

>> Well, that's what we want to find out really is.

Can cats be effective controlling rats?

A number of people are really hoping that they can.

So first step we thought would be the testaments ER.

They actually consuming the start sides because we know that coyotes are in big numbers, raccoons, many other species are.

We're fighting them with huge quantities of these.

So we tested these cats.

We found that a few of them did have trace quantities of for genocide.

That really most of them did not.

>> So what was your methodology here?

How did you have to do this?

>> But we we teamed up with an animal shelter to blood samples from cats that undergoing trap neuter It's just a simple example.

We were able to send to a lab and we can test that for a variety of different sides to really see what the concentrations are in the blood.

>> What does this teach us about the real behavior of cats in Chicago?

>> Well, I think what this teaches us is that at least among the cast we tested they're not eating a lot of rats.

Like I said, we did find a small number that were exposed, which is a concern.

If you are a cat owner in your cat is outside.

You don't want them to be exposed to these chemicals.

But it looks like by and large, they're really not consuming these rats.

>> Are they chasing them down for for fun?

Because we kind see the thing.

Go ahead.

Yeah, that's where we don't So they may be killing the rats and not eating them.

That's possible.

Don't require different study.

>> are they may just be chasing them around, which is what often seen in other studies of of cats and rats and other cities that even though they don't kill them, sort of tend to make the move around by scaring them.

Those things may be going on.

We didn't test for that in this study, but we were able to demonstrate that they're they're not really eating them, at least not in large numbers.

>> What seems to be the best way then to reduce the rat population in the city.

>> Well, the basic way to reduce population, the city has been the same for decades.

No one wants to hear.

The answer is we have to control our trash.

Really.

It's the trash that's driving is rat populations.

They see it again and again.

And if get a better handle on how to kind of contain it keep it out of their reach, that would really be the best thing we can do to control rats across the city.

>> And that said, what should people know about Rodenticides?

>> We're sides are when you place a lot of the environment, you don't know what's going to get into them.

What's going to keep them isn't going to be an owl.

Is it going to be a cat?

Is it going to be a rat?

They can be effective, but it's a very broad scale tool and a lot of people we think are just not using them criminally.

They're using them just broadly and sort of spreading across the yard or across their property.

And that can really have harmful really would prefer if people could leave the application of herbicides to the trained professionals.

>> Your research, you've also understood that.

some communities bear sort of a rat burden where some communities experience more rats than others.

Tell us about that.

>> Yeah, we've done a number of surveys across the city to really look at which communities are suffering from these rap burns and often it's the communities of color.

It's they accuse of lower income are the ones that really have these massive problems with with rats and rat infestations are trying understand why that is.

And how does the weekend?

I mean, we want to reduce everyone Trafford, but especially those communities that are suffering disproportionately.

>> What are you?

What do you anticipate some of the likelihood maybe some of the reasons might be for those communities?

>> Well, again, think some of probably comes down to trash and then why trash is stored different ways in different communities in summer.

It probably comes down to how does that people are responding to this right into stations?

Are they calling 3, 1, 1, Are they contacting a private pest control professional?

Do they have the resources to do that?

So I think we need to dig in deeper understand the motivations of how does that people can an address, what their capabilities are and also what they feel empowered to do.

>> Okay.

That's that's where