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>> Now, I'm told that fall is going to arrive at some point, but it sure still seems like summer to me.

Anyway, let's enjoy it while we can.

And you're certainly going to enjoy this version of Donnybrook.

Alvin Reid sitting in for Charlie Brennan this week in the next two, I do believe.

So, I'll bring in a Halloween with you, too, a couple of weeks from now.

Of course, with me tonight is Wendy Wiese, media veteran.

Bill McClellan, a founder and Post Dispatch columnist.

Joe Holleman, political columnist from the St.

Louis Post Dispatch as well.

And joining us is Jacob Kirn from the St.

Lewis Business Journal.

Welcome back, Jacob.

Always a joy when you're on the show.

Well, I doubt that uh Sheriff Alfred Montgomery is uh enjoying his new whereabouts, which is jail right now.

A federal judge said he could not be trusted to not tamper with witnesses and just continue with the carryings on that have been going on.

So, he ordered him not to house arrest, but to jail.

So, Joe, uh a little grandstanding by the judge.

Do you think he deserves it or where do you stand on that?

>> Well, where I stand on it is I got to give Sheriff Montgomery credit.

Every time he is faced with making the smart choice or the dumb choice, he unneringly picks the dumb choice.

I mean, this guy can't make the right move to save his soul.

And the worst part about it is I think he's thinking about it.

So, he's consciously choosing to do these things.

The latest one was is to while he was in misdemeanor trouble and the feds were looking into the operations of his office, he decided to get a burner phone and call up people who had cooperated with the federal authorities and kind of harass them, which immediately I mean, first of all, you don't do that.

And so now you've got a case where they're saying they're tampering with federal witnesses.

You go in front of a judge, he's going to do exactly what he did.

Can't trust you.

Give us your burner phone.

turn in your shoelaces, go to jail.

So, yeah, of course he does.

And and I think I saw where Cara Spencer said he just needs to be gone.

This needs to be over.

And I don't know how what the process is, and you have to follow the process.

But yes, I believe he should be in jail because if that helps the case of he needs to be removed from office, then that's what I want to happen as a city resident.

>> I I I like the way Mayor Spencer used the word absurd.

you know, she said this is we've reached the level of absurdity and Megan Green uh the aldermanic president is now on Cara Spencer's side.

So, if those two are unified around this desire to see Sheriff Montgomery step back, other alder manic uh election officials have said that they are ready to go with a special election if if that if that, you know, if that occurs.

But when he now puts himself on a level of religious figures and civil rights leaders and persecuted, it's it's just time to get the hook like they used to in vaudeville and pull this man off the stage.

It has the feeling of Kim Gardner for me a little bit where when each new fact comes that seems damning and irrefutable in some ways.

Uh it's it's a defensiveness and a witch hunt and there's not really facts on the other side at least that are being presented.

So it seems like also a distraction to me for the community.

I mean, this position is not very important and it's it's sucking up all of this media uh attention and ecosystem.

I mean, this position is supposed to protect the court, take the detainees to the hospital.

>> I mean, this seems like if we're talking about the, you know, combining city or county or any of that old stuff, this would seem one thing that maybe should go in terms of being an elected position.

Seems crazy.

Well, I think he needs a reality show, >> you know, and he's related like the grand nephew or something of Robbie Montgomery who owns Sweetie Pies who had a reality show.

And I keep thinking if that was still on, the sheriff could be an occasional character, bumping in with his latest thing, whether he made that guy roll dice for his job or just doing one crazy thing after another.

You know, he could he could be the crazy sheriff coming into the show going, "You won't guess what happened to me today."

>> Yeah.

>> Well, and I I' I've told some friends of mine I volunteered that if they do have a special election, I would be willing to run for sheriff and my only promise would be is to do everything in my power to make sure that the office of sheriff is eliminated and made into an appointed position.

And that would be my one platform >> as it is elsewhere.

Absolutely.

I think that's what Sarah Finsky, our colleague and dear friend, she said that like two months ago >> and they people have actually done that before have run for office and said they're going to eliminate the office and I'm not talking about >> and then they didn't eliminate the office.

>> Circuit clerk I can remember who ran for circuit clerk and that was his one promise and he got in and he said, you know, this is really important.

Well, that's why I want a big raise so that I, you know, make that money quickly and then kill the off >> because I was going to say there was precedent for that.

I will say this up until the burner phone, I did not think Alfred McGomery should be in jail.

I could still say like I think house arrest would be enough and you can't have a telephone and all that, but uh the burner phone thing and calling up witnesses, he lost me on that.

But I will say that I just up until that point, I really didn't think he deserved to go to jail.

And also I as as bad as she was, Kim Gardner was completely incompetent.

And I think she would have ultimately resigned as she did or been removed from office.

But like I said, the the burner phone thing was unlawful.

>> You didn't think he was that bad before the burner phone?

>> No.

No.

I'm saying he should I'm saying that the only reason that he I think he should be in jail right now, right, is the tampering with witnesses.

all the rest of the stuff.

We just have would have to get rid of him in any way, shape, or form in an election.

Well, speaking of elections, President Trump was elected president, as we know, uh coming upon a year ago.

And um I don't know if you want to call it vindictive politics, but right now there's a government shutdown.

Democrats versus Republicans in the Senate.

And the battery plant that was planned for North St.

Louis might lose its federal funding uh as a slapback on Democrats who won't come back and vote uh the way that the president wants them to.

St.

Louis needs it.

Missouri wants it, but Jacob, it's on it maybe on hold or we're just kind of waiting and seeing how the federal >> We don't know yet because the company uh hasn't responded.

Um but it was really held out as this major economic development project.

It was originally supposed to go in South City, a $500 million deal.

They put it into North City uh last year and so that was really heralded there on the North River front as a major win for North City.

But now um the it's been reported out on this list of being pulled $175 million for this project for the feds.

We went up there today.

There's nothing there yet.

So it would appear maybe that this, you know, would affect the project.

One of the things that I think is interesting is that the project is supposed to be also subsidized by the Missouri Republicans.

And so under these state programs, the the state leadership, which is controlled by Republicans, is also supposed to be subsidizing the project, but they're not addressing this federal grant being pulled so far.

So I think we need to hear from them.

They thought it was a good enough project to be subsidized, but now their leader, President Trump, has pulled it because it goes in the green energy bucket.

>> Right.

Right.

It's clean energy.

It's a Democratic city.

I mean, it's hardly a surprise that it's been yanked.

>> Right.

And it's hardly a surprise that the Republican delegation would not stand up to the president of the United States.

>> So far.

>> So far.

All right.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

Well, I I say on the other side, let me let let me look on the other side of that issue.

I'm sure the Republicans would argue if a few Democratic senators would just vote uh to open up the government, maybe we'd see where it fell then.

>> Yeah.

I mean, but this is politics being played.

And you said vindictive politics.

And to me, that's a redundancy.

Politics is vindictive.

Always has been.

And the party in power usually tends to get the upper hand.

So, they're saying, "Okay, you guys want to shut down the government?

Here we go."

And we're there because both sides can't reach an agreement is what the problem is.

So when they say it's the Republicans's fault, it's the Democrat's fault.

No, it's the Senate's fault and they can't seem to get it together enough to move the government on.

>> But the administration doesn't like this whole clean energy push anyway, Joe.

I mean, there's uh >> Yeah, I think there is a question of whether, you know, some of the the grant cancellations are coming because of the shutdown, but the administration also just does not like these green energy projects.

So, and I think that some of the cancellations, these have come over weeks and phases are not maybe not tied directly to the shutdown.

So, there might be a question whether this money would be pulled anyway.

>> I agree.

And let's end the shut down.

With this with this particular president though, you don't know seriously and I mean this whether it is the green energy product that project that he opposes or the proponents of the green energy you know it's so personal with him in so many in so many instances and you were saying earlier that that could be just a this could be a way a negotiating ploy with the shutdown >> and if the shutdown ends then we'll know.

>> Correct.

>> Yeah.

Maybe the Democrats say you have to fund all of these projects as part of a deal to end the shutdown.

It could be.

>> Yeah, it's a Israeli owned company.

It is.

Uh you wonder where that will play out in all of this.

I'm sure uh his uh good friends from Israel have given him a call and saying like, "Hey, let St.

Louis have the battery plant."

Well, uh we were discussing Cori Bush possibly running again uh taking on Wesley Bell.

I guess that was two weeks ago.

And uh I guess she watched the show because about 12 hours later she announced she was officially running.

Uh so she is indeed going to take on Cori Bush again.

Um this comes at a time where her husband is still I guess still facing at least a federal investigation of use of some campaign funds.

But uh Wendy, I was kind of surprised how quickly people jumped right back on the Cy Bush bandwagon.

I think that the I think the progressive wing of the Democratic party is a pretty tight-knit group and I think that you would I I think that you you could expect that kind of support.

There are already people profiled in the terrific uh article on on St.

Louis Americans website who are saying nope.

You know what Wesley Bell is he's doing a fine job.

We're on the Wesley Bell train.

We wish her the best and hope that she has a nice future.

Um Alicia Sonier is is in her camp.

Um there are certain there are certainly other members.

Megan Green >> Megan Green is is in her camp.

Not not surprised at all by that.

Um, but I do think as we said uh when when Corey Bush was was in office that that power of incumbency and I think Wesley Bell still has a great deal of support because of of the you know the Cy Bush Palestinian Gaza Israeli situation.

Um I think Wesley Bell's going to be fine.

Um but we'll have to just wait and see how Cy Bush's support continues to coales.

Well, when uh Cori Bush said when she lost that uh to the Jewish pack, I'm coming for your kingdom.

>> I mean, that I think just killed any political future she has.

I mean, >> uh we'll see, but I don't think she has a chance to beat Wesley Bell.

>> All right.

Now, now that there's peace, at least for now, uh there not to say I'm not saying she was vindicated for anything that she said, but does that take that issue off of the table?

>> I don't think it does.

I mean, I I think that uh Jewish community still feels very strongly against Cori Bush and the her progressive camp is strong for her.

But, you know, I like Wendy, I think the power of incumbency is a big thing and I don't think that uh Wesley Bell is going to have a trouble.

>> The Jewish community is strong locally and they proved it in in the Wesley Bell election.

I mean, they came out strong with a lot of money.

Uh, one of the things that I'm curious about with Cori Bush is what happened to the DOJ investigation, not of the husband alone, but of her.

Uh, the issue being that the campaign was putting tens of thousands of dollars into his security account.

And what ended up happening was that the sergeant-at-arms, right, Joe, of the of the House called out this uh subpoena.

Uh, yep.

So, usually when the DOJ goes to a public place, so giving a subpoena to a government that can then turn it over to the press or whatever, that's usually the endgame of of an investigation.

And we're far enough away from the election, the rematch with with Wesley Bell that I would seriously question whether the Trump DOJ is done with Cy.

And and and I'm curious about that same thing because I remember when I was writing those stories about the subpoena in the DOJ investigation sort of some sources in the background were saying is I'm like well what's going to happen?

What's the timeline?

What's the timeline?

They said look if she loses this race there is no timeline.

This case probably goes away.

>> Yeah.

And they do that a lot.

>> Right.

But now she's coming back.

So it's it's like I think it was like if Corey Bush has gone away there's no more case, you know.

So, now that she's back, what's going to happen then?

And I I I think it's certainly uh I mean, first of all, as we were uh talking about this uh two weeks ago when on that she was probably going to run.

Now's the only time she has.

If she's got to have a chance, now's the time.

Two more years from now, America forgets everything in six months.

So, two years from now, Cy Bush, if she doesn't run now, she doesn't have a shot.

I think she has a couple of things running against her.

One is money.

uh her last report, she didn't file a report uh that was due yesterday, but it may be because she doesn't have any money.

Her cash account was $340 in the hole according to the last report and she owes $15,000 in loans.

Wesley Bell has about $600,000 sitting around.

That's not counting pack money.

>> So, I I think she's certainly swimming upstream uh when it comes to that.

And I think the other thing is too is is that all of those striden supporters, the Megan Greens, Alicia Sonia, Rashene Aldridge, they already have been out for her and she lost that race.

I don't think she's going to develop >> a new group of people that all of a sudden are going, "Hey, I think she was the right answer."

I think all those supporters have already been out and voted for.

And history will tell you that your support sort of waines as you get out of the public eye.

Well, and as we all know, you know, this this kind of time between races, between uh between her her race would it's it's an eternity and anything could happen.

Maybe she's banking on something, you know, happening with >> something has to happen with Wesley Bell and that's her only hope.

That's right.

Two things.

One, you reminded me of something I was going to say about our wonderful sheriff was that I think if the sheriff resigned tonight, I think he would be out of jail.

You reminded me of that about Cy Bush coming back.

And then two, I think the Republican party would like the turmoil of Cy Bush running.

I don't think they'll file any charges against her just so she can run against Wesley Bell because Wesley Bell will probably run unopposed if not unopposed, but it probably just won't be any fanfare if somebody other than Cy Bush ran against >> whoever wins the primary in that district.

Obviously, the Democratic primary will win the election.

I think the other thing too, and you bring up a good point, which was the other point that I forgot because I'm old, um, >> that Democrats are looking to regain the House.

They don't want to be spending money on primary battles.

>> That's what I'm saying.

>> So, it's like, we got Bell in there.

Is he a Democrat?

He's fine.

And then they move on because they're looking at Democrats >> beating Republicans, and that's where they're going to the national Democrats.

That's where they're going to be putting their money at.

>> Okay.

Well, lately in the St.

Louis area, we've had um two people on scooters hurt.

Unfortunately, uh gentleman lost his life and apparently it was hit by a offduty uh St.

Louis police officer who was allegedly uh driving operating vehicle under the influence.

Uh you know that has not been you know adjudicated in court as of yet, but it did happen.

Uh, I personally am not definitely blaming any scooter accident on the scooter operator, but at the same time, they just seem like they we talked about golf carts and it just seems like the scooter users don't have any like speed limits or how they weave in and out of traffic and it concerns me.

And so, I mean, uh, Jacob, I don't know if you ride a scooter, but >> I actually do.

I know something about scooters.

So, have you got a 50 a 50cc scooter?

You uh you don't have to title it.

You don't need insurance, but it can still go on the road.

Okay.

>> We've got to be uh getting the streets to accommodate this sort of thing.

Not the reverse, not outlawing scooters.

I told you I was just in Athens.

Same, you know, road, big roads in a lot of instances.

There's thousands of scooters everywhere.

They're great.

They're great on gas mileage.

They're really cool.

They look great.

I mean, I I don't understand the the sort of attitude of, oh, we have to ban these or, you know, put more rules on them.

I just I I don't understand that.

>> Well, uh, American drivers are not used to looking for scooters.

It's the same thing with bicycles.

I mean, share the road and I agree with that and believe in it, but people are not accustomed to looking for those little scooters, uh, Jacob.

And the problem is if you have an accident with one, it's not a fender bender and you know somebody's going to get very >> hurt.

That that's why we're concerned.

I say that as an old driver >> to the young.

What he's saying, Jacob, is we're of a certain age.

We're all like Mr.

Magcoo, you know?

We can't really see um what's what's right there at the end of the hood.

And semiis have trouble seeing me in my SUV, believe it or not.

Well, I'll impeach myself in a sense as a bicycle rider and I think that bicycle riders, scooter riders >> need to do a better job of obeying the rules of the road.

>> I agree.

>> And I'm terrible about it, you know, because theoretically when I'm on a city street riding my bicycle, I'm supposed to stop at a stop sign.

Guess what?

Ain't nobody coming.

I just >> You need to >> you I shoot through if I can look both ways.

But and everybody does it.

Every other bicyclist I know and I've also seen that again not in this specific situation.

I have no knowledge of what exactly happened, but I do think that on the side, I do believe that we're not set up for these scooters.

We're not used to it.

But if we do accommodate them, then I think at least on the scooter and bicyclist operator, there has to be a recognition that I need to obey the rules of the road as well.

If I'm going to use those roads, those rules apply to me.

>> We have got a great opportunity because the mayor is a bicyclist, okay?

and she's very uh passionate about this.

And there are some projects in different areas where they want to narrow these roads, put in protected bike lanes.

You have Great Rivers Greenway that's doing these paths in the city now after starting in the exerbs.

They're going into the city, creating these uh paths, not for scooters, but for bikes.

And so tap into that.

I mean, the mayor believes in this.

She bikes around all the time.

We can change St.

Louis for the better, I think.

Well, and I believe and I've ridden most every one of those trails that that you mentioned.

The problem is is when you get to the point where you have to ride on a city street and it's pretty hard to make a seamless trail that will take you everywhere in the city without at some point putting yourself out on a public street.

And I am bad as a whole lot of bicyclist I know about following the rules.

And I just all I'm saying is the city need or the people need to do a better job in cars to share the road and the people who are sharing the road with it need to realize you're on a road and there's rules too.

>> Okay.

>> Well, you live on the hill.

>> Yeah.

>> How how could you accommodate scooters on >> we accommodate go-karts and all kinds of stuff >> because >> that is that is golf cart heaven up there.

>> You need vegetable oil on your car doors to get through some of those through some of those streets down there.

>> Okay.

Well, unless the president moves the World Cup in Kansas City to Sturgis or some place, uh, a third train, I'm sorry, the storefronts in, uh, Kansas City are going to like accommodate businesses, pay them to be there and sell their wares so they don't have empty st uh, storefronts throughout downtown.

And to me, this is a good idea that we should borrow throughout the summer during baseball season when people are downtown.

Joe, will that work?

You think that'll attract and make us look better?

>> I'd say give it a try.

>> I I don't know if it will work, but I think it it's one of those things.

Why not?

Otherwise, you're left with a vacant looking building.

And so, do you take that first week of opening uh baseball season and and say, "Let's do that."

And then when the Blues get their season going, let's do something here in October, maybe, God willing, the Cardinals will actually be in a postseason.

I mean, try it.

What What have you got to lose?

and what seems to be basically is here.

Come use our come use this vacant building and make it look like it's vital.

And maybe it catches on.

>> Well, I think I think we're doing it already.

I mean, because we talked about this once before and uh Sarah Fensky corrected me and said, you know, it's going on right now on Washington Avenue and I thought, well, I haven't seen it.

But yeah, my my thing about this, it's been going on a couple years and so you can get up to 15,000 uh or and then maybe 50,000 to do like work if you're already there.

My question would be it would be a good story for whoever got to it.

Are there more things open now?

There more retail and restaurants open downtown just walking around downtown.

I don't think that's the case.

If you subsidize something without underlying demand, it's pretty tough to really change the the market dynamics.

Okay?

And the market dynamics downtown now are not very good.

We just had a story that the Bank of America Plaza, a gigantic building downtown, just sold for $6 million.

It was selling for tens and tens of millions of dollars.

The occupancy's gone from 80% to 45% or something.

Downtown is severely troubled.

severely tr >> and I think Jacob makes a great point on the thing just briefly is that there's two parts of it.

You can have a plan but at some point you got to look if the plan's working.

Too many times I think it's got well we've got a plan we're done.

See if the plan >> toasted at the foundry that just announced that >> toasted is leaving the >> is leaving the foundry.

I mean it's >> Well, but the foundry is doing okay downtown.

That's Midtown, >> right?

Right.

No, no, no, no.

True.

But I just I think it's it's too early to celebrate.

>> If I if I had $6 million, I'd buy that building.

I really would.

I would I would I think that it just sits in a place that I think ultimately I would get my money back.

>> Right across the street from City Garden and then Ballpark's right there.

That that's that's too sweet a deal.

I ain't got $6 million, but if I did, I would buy it.

Okay.

Um short time here, but I think everybody knows that Rene is no longer longtime KSDK employee, did sports, then did the morning show.

He's no longer there.

Um we really don't know what all that is about.

We're not even going to ask about that.

But Bill, there has been no comment from the TV station itself.

U should public entities, radio, TV, newspapers, when things happen like that, we're always asking questions.

When the question gets asked of them, should they answer?

>> Sure.

I mean, and and I've seen it when the newspaper has refused to answer stuff, too.

And it just puzzles me.

I think we're in the business of asking questions and hoping for an answer when somebody asks us to say, "Well, we have no comment."

And I think that in this case, you know, the TV station has asked people to have Renee KNS come in their living room all these nights or days and to just suddenly say, well, it's none of your business what's going on.

I think that's hypocrisy >> curious and and plus the purant interest is that you know the sort of sleazy >> you mean the sorted is what's going on.

I know that's the way I feel.

>> Well, I think that's a natural reaction.

20 seconds, Joe.

Anything to add, anybody?

>> No.

I'm uh >> we >> No comment.

>> Okay, >> I like that.

>> TV's changing a lot.

>> We got to go to letters.

The only logical choice for a new sheriff is someone who is not connected to the political scene.

Someone who has law enforcement experience and knows how the sheriff's office is supposed to function because he or she worked for the sheriff's department.

That from null stasiac, South St.

Louis.

uh retired naval personnel.

>> I am and have been a long fan of both the show and the members of the panel.

Your discussions are comfortable and informative.

My only criticism is that it feels as if members are trying to be as entertaining as much as they are informative.

Let's lower the level of stick.

God bless from Patrick Hayes St.

Charles.

And from Jack Lampert of Chesterfield.

Jake Lampard of Chesterfield, excuse me, Charlie Brennan saying to some extent I would appreciate that regarding a military state is about as absurd as it gets.

Are you simply looking for a reaction or are you being serious, Charlie?

You can write to us at Donnybrook care of Nine PBS 3655 Olive Street, St.

Louis, Missouri 63108.

Send us an email to donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

or or a tweet to donnybrookstl.

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You can find us at your favorite podcast spot.

And last call is coming up next.

You can find us on the YouTube channel.

A lot of people are watching it.

And we want to thank Jacob Kern from the St.

Louis Business Journal for being with us on Donnybrook.

He will also be with us on Last Call.

Good night.

Have a good one.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.