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Well, if you don't know what fair is, you can't make it.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

>> It sure is.

Thanks for joining us for another edition of Donnybrook.

Wow, was there a lot to discuss this week and we'll get to it.

But first, let's meet our panelists.

Starting with the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, Bill McClellan from the Post Dispatch.

Also from the Post and STLtoday.com, Joe Holleman, and Alvin Reid from the St.

Louis American.

Well, we're going to kick things off in just a moment, but first, a little thanks to Michelle Spencer, who is a great local artist from Jefferson County, I believe, and loaned us this piece of artwork for the mantle behind us on our rotating art series.

Thank you very much, Michelle.

And folks, you can find more of Michelle's work at michellepensart.com.

Hey, Joe, we're going to kick things off with you.

Uh, I thought the story in the Wall Street Journal was really a disappointment and an eye openener.

said that FEMA and its response to St.

Louis's May 16th tornado has ground to a halt, that nothing is going on.

And they say a lot of the experienced workers were replaced by political appointees.

A lot of the experienced FEMA workers took the DOGE buyout from Elon Musk.

Um, at the same time, they are no longer using computers.

They're using paper and pencil.

and it just seemed as if uh they're not making door-todoor visits anymore.

Nothing is going on.

And they say this has not quite happened before.

Apparently St.

Louis and the flash flood victims in Texas are the first to be part of this revamp FEMA that's kind of like destroying the agency and sending any work on recovery to the states and the cities.

>> Right.

And uh the what they did was send a bunch of money.

Uh, our city hall reporter Austin Hugo had reported that about a week or two ago, but they said, "No, as far as boots on the ground help, no, here's a bunch of money.

We'll send you consultants, but kind of you guys are responsible for cleaning it up."

And it's something that had been sort of signaled before the tornado hit that this was what was going to happen, that states were going to have to become more responsible for the cleanups.

What uh people have complained about though is is that there doesn't seem to be any help whatsoever coming from FEMA, not just a transitional change, but as you said, ground to a halt.

And there were a couple other places that are experiencing the same problem.

Uh so now Josh Hawley is saying he wants answers from FEMA and wrote a letter, you know, one of those scathing letters that politicians write to department heads saying, "I want this information by Monday exactly what you're doing in St.

Louis."

And why is it not going well?

So, uh, we'll see if he does anything about it other than first get the information.

>> Well, you know, if Josh Hawley wants answers, I know exactly where he can find them.

And that's 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Call the president and say, "Mr.

President, enough is enough."

I don't know why anybody's surprised.

This administration is about culture wars and ICE and all this stuff, but the actual helping of the people that need help, that is so far down the line, I'm not surprised at all.

And I think anybody in St.

Louis within a week after that tornado hit had to know that this day was coming that the government does not care what's going to happen to us in St.

Louis.

So, whatever our plans are, we better get to it.

If that 30 member committee is meeting, I wish they would let us know.

>> It's a blue city in a very red state.

>> But that's supposed to not matter though.

>> I I understand that.

And if if also if Texas if they're dragging their heels in in Texas as well, that's I that's just kind of it's kind of shocking.

>> Well, I think this is just part of the government that that they're collapsing.

uh they they don't want FEMA anymore and they'll dish out a little money, but the fact that it's happening in Texas, which is a you know, red state >> typically >> with powerful politicians on Trump's side there is an indication that >> that he's not just doing this.

They want to stop.

I get the impression that uh Joe or the Wall Street Journal informed Josh Hawley about this because Holly is as you report the chair of the Senate subcommittee on disaster management and it's only this week that he's jumping to it responding to your story to the Wall Street Journal.

I mean why has he been quiet for the fact that >> FEMA has transferred 400 agents to ICE when those agents could be in St.

Louis?

I I think I can answer that.

You know, Josh Hawley is trying to separate himself from the field for 2028.

He you know, you can't be against MAGA or you won't get the nomination.

But you want to separate yourself in some way and he he saw the Wall Street Journal or Joel called him and he just thought this is an opportunity for me to be apart from the rest of the crowd and he's taken it.

Very smart guy >> like so many of our politicians.

Um, I I did not graduate from Harvard.

Um, but I can put together the importance when it comes to the American people when you have emergency management in the title of your agency or aviation.

I want there to be an enormous amount of attention.

I think everybody does when it comes to those two particular agencies.

So, it is it's really alarming to think that yeah, FEMA's just kind of, >> you know, and at the same time, I'm not sure Wesley Bell's been on top of this or Ann Wagner or Eric Schmidt or any of our representatives in Washington.

>> And and I do think one thing that gets kind of lost, you remember back to Katrina.

>> Yeah.

>> It's not like FEMA was getting rave reviews at Katrina.

And I think the thing that gets lost and it gets more and more lost in sort of the partisan wars that we're in is this government has had a history of being ineffective and inefficient for decades, centuries.

So the idea it's it's not like well FEMA was working like a Swiss watch up until St.

Louis's tornado.

There are differences but there are differences in other cities like New Orleans.

Yes, FEMA did send extra trailers for schools for the students when their schools were destroyed.

They haven't done that in St.

Louis.

They haven't helped the students at all.

>> That was after the cat catastrophic.

>> It was a huge huge huge never been seen before.

I'm not excusing FEMA and Brownie and all that down there, but I I just you know >> the difference, Joe, is this is by choice.

I I this is this is purely by choice.

I understand bureaucracy and incompetency, but this is by choice and that's what hurt.

>> Well, and I think there's difference in choices and the people who chose Donald Trump have different choices than the people who didn't.

And I think that's what people are grabbing.

>> That's kind of what I was saying, my first statement is like, why is anybody surprised?

>> But they won't if a tornado decides to or a flood decides to rip through their neighborhood.

>> The reason I'm surprised, Alvin, because I don't recall this during the first administration, you know, during the first Trump administration, I don't recall FEMA being gutted as it is now.

Well, I mean, you make promises.

You make you make every wild promise and then you fulfill them and then everybody's sitting around saying like, "I didn't know he was going to do that to me.

I didn't know he was going to do that to me."

Well, all right.

>> Hey, Wendy, I want to ask you about some good news in St.

Louis.

British Airways announced that it's going to fly direct four days a week, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays between St.

Louis and London.

Do you think that the Londoners are going to be visiting us, maybe going to the World Cup or Route 66, or do you think it's mostly going to be St.

Louisans getting on the plane, going to London, enjoying England, then coming back?

>> I think it will probably be a little heavier with the, you know, St.

Louisans and and elsewhere in the region, traveling over uh to uh to to London, but I think that there is still we we forget, you know, Chuck Barry, the blues, the Tina Turner.

We have quite a a legacy to be proud of and I think overseas there's still a great deal of interest in it.

What was so surprising to to me I think and a lot of other people who read the article and first of all Ronda Ham Nebuggi this is a huge thing uh for her office out at at Lambert.

I know she's excited about that.

But uh the fact that our GDP, you know, in the city is is like one of the highest like 200 billion 200 in excess of 200 billion.

Our local GDP and our per person GDP is I never heard of it.

>> I thought that was all a misprint.

I mean, I I I think that it's wonderful news that we're getting a direct flight to London >> and uh you know, and maybe we will get some tourists here.

Certainly, they'll all be going to Kansas City for the World Cup from there.

But the our that we got it because of our high GDP.

>> I'm no economist, but this was startling.

>> I know it really was.

I I we'll look forward to the breakdown of that.

But um on the exact same day that British Airways announced that they were going to have non-stop to from St.

Louis to London, uh and we knew this was coming, but it became official.

Uh the University of Kansas is going to play Arizona State in London next fall.

And they officially announced the game on the same day that British Airways said there's a flight to St.

Louis.

And I'm just like, >> I bet you are.

I I Okay, leave Tuesday, get a little touring in, game on Saturday, come home Sunday.

I already thinking about it up here.

I also just drove back um from Seattle um to St.

Lewis and we could really market that gateway to the west because just as interested as we were over the decades in Sherlock Holmes and Jack the Ripper, people in England were really into the Wild West and they used to come over here a a lot of them and and do that Oregon Trail stuff and go see Mount Rushmore.

And so I I think we could really market ourselves to make this a benefit to St.

Louis.

>> I I've been out to Zion National Park several times.

I thought it always run into a bunch of Europeans who are coming over here to see our national parks.

Grand Canyon, it's it's multilingual.

I mean, when you listen to the conversations you're going around, I mean, I I think the idea is, you know, you your hometown's never interesting to you and you think that's not interesting, but there is is scenery.

I mean, like I've told people I had never been to the Badlands in the Dakotas.

I drove through there, I was knocked out at how gorgeous it was.

And I think those things we take for granted.

I think if you're in another country, it sounds positively exotified.

>> I do too.

But whether or not you can still use this as the gateway like to Yellowstone, you know, like, hey, if you want to visit Yellowstone, fly to St.

Louis, >> you know, I don't think so.

I think you'd fly out west, wouldn't you, Joe?

Well, I think you can, but I didn't say we're getting every single European who wants to go there.

>> I'll tell you what we could do.

You know, there's a lot of European interest in some of our um great historic figures, including Maya Angelou, Josephine Baker, Tina Turner, and I think and Chuck Barry, of course.

We could do a better job at I mean, we don't even we haven't even marked uh Maya Angelou's birth or home where she lived.

I mean, with a plaque, things like that.

And at the same time, I mean, this week, uh Tina Turner, there was a statue put up of her and I think in Mississippi.

Why isn't there one of Tina Turner in St.

Louis?

>> The tornado.

>> The tornado.

I mean, that's a few other fires, but I I didn't realize that Le Lansza has had such success that they're that they're expanding and in a global marketplace, this helps.

I mean, I really do believe that this is an exciting development for the future.

>> We need to also use this as, hey, let's clean it up.

Let's smarten it up.

Let's put a extra coat of paint on the airport, which I'll think is fine, but I think is not fine.

I agree.

You know, like, you know, and you know, at the Southwest Terminal, you get your bags and there's a big garden out there, but has no flowers in it.

I think they should put flowers in there.

And Joe, I think you're right.

You go to Ted Drews, you will meet people from Europe who are here to see Route 66.

And next year, I think is the 100th anniversary.

>> Right.

Right.

They're having a big 100th anniversary.

uh uh Darren Lehood, a congressman from uh Illinois, suburban Chicago area, Peoria.

So that's not Chicago considers it suburban Chicago, but uh Poria and a bunch of other folks have jumped on this bill to make it a national trail.

And the funny thing about it was it was real interesting when I said I was out at Zion uh National Park.

Both times when I said to people, I said, "Oh, I you know, how did you know about this over in one was from Holland?

Mhm.

>> They were Dutch and the other one were German.

And they're saying, "Oh, we're over here for Route 66."

>> The two different groups.

I was like, "Pardon me?"

You know, I was like, "You came over here for Route 66?"

"Oh, yeah.

That that's fascinating."

And those little motel on the way.

And they they were like gaga over the idea of Route 66.

And I think there's appeal to those kind of things.

And especially now, I think it goes along the lines with when you mentioned people care about like coffee shops and things, not the big I think Route 66 has that kind of old school nostalgic romantic kind of bring the TV show back, but it's but it's something different than let's go see this big monument, let's go see this.

Here's something that's a little call it kitschy, call it campy, but I think it's the kind of thing people might be looking for.

And and don't forget that in 2008 and it received intergalactic coverage.

Sir Paul McCartney was here for his 66th birthday.

Stopped stopped here and stopped in Springfield, Illinois.

>> Okay.

So, >> but okay.

I'm going to jump into the Love Fest for just a moment and bring up a point that I saw in this week's Business Journal.

They take a look at the Hotel St.

Louis at 705 Olive.

It's a Louis Sullivan building.

It's currently owned by Amy and Amrich Gil and they say they have called the city hundreds of times trying to get the nearby properties cleaned up across the street.

It looks terrible.

Uh next door at the Chemical Building Railway Exchange, it's decrepit.

Lot of uh trash and litter and people are starting to comment on it online.

Maybe April 19th, the day that British Airways starts its first flight from St.

Louis to London.

We should mark that as the day our target to clean up this city.

>> I I mean, we're all journalists.

Deadline for some reason makes you get active, right?

>> Well, except I wouldn't now if if I was running it, I wouldn't start even thinking about the cleanup until April 12th.

I know we still have a week and we got to do that.

So, I don't know about that.

>> I think that's a good idea.

I mean, I think that those are the things that shouldn't be they don't take a lot of planning.

They need trucks and elbow grease and clean up.

Pick up the garbage.

But then again, I think that's a solution to a whole lot of problems that cities face that seem to get ignored because they're not very romantic ideas.

>> Bill, I want to ask you about the governor who has applied for um an exemption from certain rules regarding food stamps or SNAP, supplemental nutrition assistance program.

Uh, currently you can buy candy and sweets and uh, I guess salty snacks with your your benefits.

Uh, he wants to change the rules so that in Missouri you'll only be able to buy healthy foods with some exceptions, of course.

Uh, you'll be able to get h corn flakes, but also frosted corn flakes.

So, but nonetheless, do you overall approve that plan?

>> No.

And I I respectfully disagree with the governor on this.

And I say respectfully because famously he was raised by a single mother and I think he cares deeply about these kids and feels like he's doing the right thing.

But the the reality of a lot of these mothers is they live in food deserts.

They don't have transportation to get to supermarkets.

And I I think that you have to give them a little latitude on this.

And I know healthy food is important.

Like I say, I I'm convinced that the governor feels like he's doing the right thing, but I think you have to give these mothers a little more latitude.

>> Um I think that the governor really could care less about these little kids and whatnot because if he did, his a lot of the policies he backs he would not support.

However, the idea that you can't buy candy bars and snacks with SNAP dollars, I agree with that.

I I always have.

I think that that money should be used for staple foods and uh then what what what you do have left over with your own money then you can buy >> well I I I think that the a law of unintended consequences comes to play Alvin that just like there's a black market for food stamps I suppose that there is for the SNAP coupons and if you can't get to the grocery store and you have $100 worth of SNAP coupons you might be able to sell them for $50.

Well, it's on a card now.

Now, back when you used to physically get the stamps.

I know about this.

Rich people used to You'd go to the grocery store and there'd be somebody out there.

I'll give you $80 worth of food stamps for $60.

And you would Hey, that's I'm sorry, but you know, I don't care what you going to buy with this cash, but I will take these food stamps in here with pride.

you know, and >> I I think it's a I think it's a good idea uh what Governor Kho is proposing if we're going to talk about health >> and since everybody's opposed >> to Donald Trump's appointment for our Department of Health and Human Services and what about the health of Americans, I just don't see where candy and soda, if you want to buy that with your own money, fine.

But like Alvin said, it's basically for things like meat and eggs and milk and yes, frosted flakes.

And if the milk's chocolate milk, I don't care.

But the idea that you're going to spend this money on Snickers bars and Dr.

Peppers, I it's not a good idea.

>> I just I I just think it seems kind of punitive to people who who already probably are not having they're not living their best life and they're just trying very hard.

So if there if there was a certain percentage dedicated to maybe fun food, uh I wouldn't have a problem.

>> You know, I I I think you have to think that these people really want the best for their kids.

It's just like schools.

The reason charter schools do well even though they have poor outcomes is that pe desperate people are looking around saying, I want something better for my child than the public school.

and and and they might be wrong, but I think that the the parents really want the best for their kids, but if they can't get to the grocery store, >> well, I'm I'm going to believe the opposite that the people who want the best for their kids are trying to cut down the amount of soda and candy they're eating anyway.

So, and I I think the uh salty snacks are designed by engineers at big companies to addict people.

I think people are buying that stuff, the Cheetos, the Doritos, the Fritos because they get addicted.

>> Don't get Jennifer Bloom started on this topic because she she had read she had read many many books that point that out and and explain it, you know, chapter and verse that that these these snacks, I think like Cheetos, they are absolutely engineered to turn us all into addicts with orange fingers.

What did you make, Wendy, of the fight that apparently broke out after a town hall meeting in Bellfountaine Neighbors between the chairman of the St.

Louis County Council, Shelanda Webb, and a state senator, Angela Mosley.

Uh, it's gotten so bad, one of the individ individuals, I forget which, broke a finger, and now one is suing the other.

It's happening a lot lately.

There was a guy who is the chairman of the Democratic Central Committee in the county, Jonathan Bes, who's accused of beating up a state representative, uh, Michael Burton, something like that.

>> What is going on?

>> I think that these are very extreme times and I think that I think social media is the accelerant, if you will.

I I think people are used to being hyperaggressive uh these days on social media.

We didn't used to be like this.

Uh I do, you know, there are people who will say, "Ah, you know, so what?

They they had a little fisticuffs."

I think that when you have elected officials, and I don't care who they are, >> you deal with it like grown-ups.

I mean, just send, you know, send a juvenile email or something.

But when hands are, you know, I mean, when when you lay hands on somebody, then you're not representing your office or your voters, your constituency.

>> And that's the key word there, representing.

Now, who are you representing?

You're representing a large African-American population in North County.

We do not have time for foolishness like this.

I mean, if I we're planning our defense strategy and I turn around and two people are arguing or fighting and getting in a fist fight about this and we're it in some type of battle, both of them are court marshal.

If not, even worse, both of them should stand down.

Can we please please find somebody else to run who is responsible, who is honest, and who is not an embarrassment to the community.

I mean, it's just sad.

I don't think it's an embarrassment.

I think it just happens.

Remember you you're the sports columnist for the American.

Before one of the playoff games between the Hawks and the Celtics, didn't the owner of the Hawks, Ben Kerner, get in a fight with Red Hourback at >> in the middle of the court?

>> And a sporting event.

I mean, fights break out on the court or on the field.

That's a sporting event.

This is a meeting about the 75th anniversary of our neighbors.

It's just it's sad.

That's sad.

Well, unfortunately, you you just we've come to the point where you can't expect our elected officials to be paragonss of virtue.

I mean, that's not the sort of people we're electing.

>> There was a time when it was radio DJs who got or hosts who got in fights in arena parking lots and in studios and elsewhere, right?

>> Yeah.

>> The Kevin Sllayton's, >> the JC Corcorans, >> right?

I mean it never came to all right never came to blows but we have been in newspapers where and this was over philosophical issues where it got a little bit heated and everybody's mad every you know like swear words flying and face to face and within an hour you know everybody's having a drink okay because it was about the business this is not about the business this is about just some nonsense speaking of politics Joe what do you think about Cy Bush you're right that possibly she's going to challenge uh Wesley Well, next year in the primary for the first congressional district, >> right?

A number of sources have uh have told uh myself and Austin Hugo, city hall reporter for the Post, uh who have seen her what indicates making preparations, uh making videotapes around town, uh talking with people, attempting to hire staff, communications people.

So, it seems that she is poised, preparing to make another run at that first congressional district seat that she lost to Wesley Bell.

She has not yet announced.

Uh but uh it it it makes logical sense.

She never said she was never not going to run.

If you remember the day she lost, she was very viferous, very strident in how this wasn't the end and you know that she was going to possibly be back.

And from what we have found out talking to a number of people, she seems to be getting those ducks in an order.

>> Double digit loss.

Double digit.

Single digit this time.

Double digit loss.

I don't even think the the the the factors that led to her defeat this time.

I don't even think they'll come into play.

Her own constituents, I do not see her being supported by them.

10% loss.

>> I I I agree that uh she's going to lose.

I And I think she'll run.

I think she'll lose.

But I think her supporters are telling her, "Hey, you know, you were proven right on Gaza.

You know, Gaza is a complete mess."

And Wesley Bell's not saying anything.

And I think she's being egged on by her supporters, but there just aren't enough of them.

But what if a third person gets in the primary?

>> Well, that could change the dynamics.

>> It all depends on who the third person is.

>> That's right.

>> And that could create an opportunity for someone to sneak in.

>> Oh, you looking at me.

Or or it could kill or it could kill a challenger's opportunity to unsee Wesley Bell.

That's right.

>> So without knowing who that third person is, it's pure conjecture.

>> And also two when this midterm election comes around, Democrats will be very serious about winning every seat they can.

Listen, they'll say Wesley Bell, you're the guy.

Cory Bush, go away.

We are out of our discussion time.

Now to your letters.

I love that most your panel supports the idea of an armory data center when most do not even live in the city.

That from Chris Easley of St.

Louis.

Charlie stated that the St.

Louis earnings tax is levied equally 1% on both the employee and the employer.

This is a common misunderstanding.

While the employee portion is 1%, the employer is liable for 1/ half a percent.

Thank you Dave Swatk of St.

Louis.

Bradley Bolman of Jefferson County wrote, "I don't understand the mentality of people who live in in St.

Louis.

Everyone wants money and money and development to flow into St.

Louis, but every time a company or developer tries, the same people complain that it's not the right type."

We also heard this from the Neline.

I went to the symphony's free concert on Art Hill on September 17th and I think SLSO should adopt a new motto SLSO.

We draw more people than the Cardinals.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, Rick Dorsy.

You can write us care of Nine PBS 63108.

Don't forget emails donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

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Dorsey did at 314512994.

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This week, we'll talk about crime at Mizzou.

Is it out of control?

That's it for this week's program.

We hope you join us next week at this time.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.