Well, if you don't know what fair is, you can't make it.

Donny Brook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

Thank you very much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

Again, we've got lots to talk about, including some rather shocking, I think, breaking news, which we'll lead off with in just a moment.

How about that for a tease?

But first, let's meet our panelists.

Starting with the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, Bill McClellan, one of our founders from the Post Dispatch.

We'll be talking about the Post.

And there she is from the 314 podcast St.

Louis magazine, Sarah Fenske.

And from the St.

Louis American, Mr.

Alvin Reed.

Well, Sarah, this is the breaking news, and that is the sheriff of the city of St.

Louis is now on house arrest.

Apparently, Alfred Montgomery is facing federal charges for witness tampering.

And as opposed to saying, "Hey, we'll see you in court," they said, "Hey, you're going to go home.

You're going to wear a ankle bracelet.

You can't leave the house except for medical appointments and visits to see your uh attorney."

I don't know if his past behavior warrants house arrest.

What do you think?

Boy, I kind of think it does.

Now, I have defended Alfred Montgomery on this show.

I have said that I think the past charges against him were not that big a deal.

You know, it was a misdemeanor that he was facing in federal court.

These new charges that just dropped this afternoon, this is five felonies.

And the idea of uh witness tampering, that's a big deal.

You can't have somebody who's out waiting for their charges to be heard in court, for them to go around messing around with this case.

So, not only do I think he deserves house arrest at this point because we have to assume there's some element of truth to these charges, um, you know, the judge is going to have a bond hearing on Tuesday.

I think it's possible the judge is going to order him to go straight to jail.

I'm going to have a hard time arguing with that.

Well, I just I Nothing he has done has warrant him going to jail right now.

Witness tampering, Elvis.

Well, I mean, until proven I mean, yes, until this is proven, I don't think the man should be house arrest or under arrest.

You just think he can run around just talking to witnesses in the case, many of whom work for him and potentially, you know, screwing this all up.

I I just think this is just some more power play shenanigans and authoritarianism mispronounced.

But anyway, you mean on the part of just all involved federal charges switching positions too, Sarah?

You know, I argued against you when I was against Montgomery and you were for him and now I'm not so sure.

you know, the US attorney's office, I it doesn't have the same feel that it used to have.

I mean, with Tom Albus in charge, you know, it's run more like uh night court in one of the munis, you know, uh where you can plead guilty but with an excuse, you know, and who's your lawyer?

Oh, is that Pam's brother?

Step right over there, you know.

So, so I I a year ago, a couple months ago, I would have said, "Hey, if the feds say this, I take it."

But these these days, I'm not so sure.

I I guess I'm stunned that people are stunned that the sheriff who had somebody rolled dice for his job would consider witness tampering.

I mean, that is that's stunning in itself.

I do think house arrest you immediately think of somebody like Paul Pot or, you know, somebody really really awful, but this guy is kind of slippery.

And I I I could see where house arrest Well, why do we bring up Paul Pot and Alfred Montgomery?

I'm That's what That's what I'm saying.

I'm saying house arrest is kind of dramatic.

House arrest is a pretty nice thing.

It's better than jail.

Yeah.

Well, but it's much better.

But Sarah, you said that uh the charges seem to have an element of truth.

What I mean, what do you know about?

Well, I just I guess unlike Bill, I still assume that if the US attorney's office is saying, "Hey, we're charging somebody with with this that there's some underlying fact pattern that would lead us throughout this justice department."

So, we've completely lost faith in the entire US attorney.

Well, have you completely lost faith?

Have you lost faith in people being innocent till proven guilty?

No, I'm all for innocent till proven guilty, which is why I do tend to prefer house arrest to making people stay in jail with no bail.

Like, I think no bail is bad.

I'm just so stunned.

You guys are now uh I'm the law and order guy on this.

If Alfred Montgomery resigned tonight, all the charges would be go away tomorrow.

They're just trying to strong him out of the office.

I don't know.

I guarantee.

But Calvin strongarm uh uh Indian whatever there it was.

What are what is that called?

Arm wrestling.

Thank you.

Anyway, we need to get him out of that office.

No, we need to vote him out of office.

Incompetency is not a crime.

I mean, I'm sorry, you know, but when when story of my career as I think we asked this question weeks ago, the last time we were talking about Sheriff Montgomery, when does incompetency become a crime?

Because it is incompetence is one thing, but Alvin, you got to admit, if he's refusing to take ill prisoners to the hospital, he should be rebu.

And I wish he were, but oh this is this is beyond what need be done.

This is all Trump.

This is all Yeah.

Elvin trying to Trump whether he has to do it or not.

Well, I think I know how you're going to react to the next question because the president sent 500 troops from the National Guard to Chicago.

I think 200 are from Texas and 300 from the state of Illinois.

And JB Pritsker, governor of uh Illinois, of course, has, I think, been making political hay of it.

He's front and center, and he's showing all the Democrats that he is uh the number one opponent of Donald Trump and his policies.

He said that the president is scenile.

And in response, the president said, "Oh, he should be in jail," referring to JB Pritsker.

But from what I'm reading, these guards, these troops, National Guard troops in Washington DC are actually picking up litter.

They're doing some landscaping to beautify the nation's capital.

They're helping little league kids play uh uh baseball.

If that's the case, would you consider inviting the National Guard to St.

Louis?

No.

Now, now wait a minute.

There's a big difference in inviting somebody to your house and President Trump kicking in the door and sending them whether you want them or not.

I don't want them here.

I do not want any armed military unit at the behest of the president just to come to my city and like and then a bunch of lies and platitudes about crimes out of control and all that kind of stuff.

No, this showboating somebody's got to stand up to it.

I'm glad the governor of Illinois is standing up to it.

This is once again, this is just unheard of in this country.

And I don't care if they're painting the White House or picking up litter or doing anything.

Absolutely no to this because what's next, Charlie?

And and what's going to happen to little league teams when the guard leaves?

If if the guard is here to coach little league teams, I guess it depends on how strong their offense is.

I mean, I I I I don't know.

But the only, you know, you you're making them sound like Molly Maids, you know, like a crew from Molly Maids.

And they're putting they're putting they're putting change under the pillows of children and taking their teeth like the tooth they're acting for the tooth fairy.

You know, I mean, the funny thing is, and I funny and strange, the mayor of Washington DC, Mural Bowser, who was originally against them, is all for it.

She well she she has really softened her stand against it and in the case at least of Washington DC the troops who are good people you know they're not bad people they're helping the civic atmosphere I don't I don't have a problem with it I'm with you I just think that you're making them sound like well they shouldn't be it may not be the best use of the national military resource why not though I mean this whole thing is so absurd and I'm glad that these nice young people who are out there are behaving respectably in Washington DC.

That's great news.

But it feels like with with what's happening in Illinois, this is this terrible federal encroachment.

Like what ever happened to the idea of states being able to govern themselves?

Like we're all now under this giant federal thumb.

I'm with Alvin.

And it really is very thirdworldish.

I mean the idea of armed troops walking around our cities and they and they don't have arrest powers.

So exactly besides coaching little league, which I hadn't heard before, I don't know what they're supposed to do.

You go to some European capitals and they're not third world, Bill.

I mean, Frankfurt, I haven't been to Europe, Charlie.

They've got people who are looking some carrying some and that way that's been like that since the first time I went to Europe back in the 70s.

Yes.

That part of their mil their police, part of their military guards, airports, guards towns.

They've been on the watch out for terrorist, not fellow Americans, not fellow countrymen.

Well, sometimes terrorists can do I understand that, but these people are not here to guard us from terrorism.

Well, you guys are acting as if Chicago hasn't had 331 homicides.

Okay.

So, so then let's just have a military state.

All right.

Nobody will ever get murdered anymore.

You know what?

To some extent, I would appreciate that.

Yeah.

I would as opposed I mean how many people don't have graves could speak they would agree with police solve murders stop murders show force might hurt well the national guard I don't even think in DC they're out in the neighborhoods are they patrolling neighborhoods no they're doing a lot of landscaping now that's what we hear landscaping and coaching Phil I want to ask you about your newspaper are you going to give me a discount now that you're not going to be delivering the print edition to my home anymore on Mondays.

Yeah.

How about those celebrity birthdays on page two?

Will they still be printed or available?

Yeah.

Well, Charlie, I know what you're talking about is we're stopping the Monday print edition.

And you know to me it's a sad thing but around the country this this is going on you know and some some people who know more than I do say that the day is coming when everybody will get their newspaper on a device you know that you'll you'll just you won't walk out on the lawn and pick up the paper like I do and like a lot of people like me like to do that you'll just have a device an iPad or something and you'll scroll through the paper just the way my wife reads books on what is what are those things called Kindles right I mean I I think that everything is headed that way and I hope this doesn't uh mean the death of journalism I hope it's just going to be the same journalism in a different it it's a per it's a period of transition whether it's electronic whether it's print I I don't think there's any doubt about it we've all noticed it um I I think really almost the story makes more of a thing out of it than it deserves to be.

You know, we're we're cutting our It's It is sad because it means that we're getting closer and closer to the caboose on this in terms of that print, you know, that wonderful print that you get on your fingers.

But I I think when you eliminate um like I say, the newspaper getting thrown, I think there'll always be a kind of a paper paper, but you'll just have to go you'll have to buy it.

You'll have to maybe not go out of your way, but I think it'll be available.

I don't know.

They're getting They're not printing a Monday edition.

It's not that they're No, I'm saying even after this, I'm just saying that there I think there would always be I think papers will always make some type of print edition available for you to buy.

I'm not I don't know.

When I go out of town and I I always want to look at the newspaper in another town and it used to be the hotel would always have one.

It might be USA Today, but they'd have something.

Yeah.

But now I go and there I often can't find anything.

And if I say to the young clerk, uh, I'm looking to get a paper, they look at me like, what?

And and they'll say, well, maybe you could try a convenience store, sir.

Yeah.

I was in New York City.

They no longer have the newspaper in the news stands.

It used to be my favorite thing to walk up and buy all the newspapers.

Now they only have them tucked away in a dark corner of in coffee houses.

always used to buy paper.

No, they don't.

I think it's over.

And honestly, I think the best move the Post Dispatch could make here.

And it pains me to say this because that you guys have great reporters doing wonderful work.

And I love a print newspaper as a reader.

But I think they should just kill the whole print edition right now.

Right now, their circulation is so low on that print paper.

It's smaller than the RFTs was even like 10 years ago.

It's it's minuscule.

27,000.

Yeah.

I mean, it's ridiculous.

291 at at this point.

It's just a a vanity product for a couple of suburban readers.

The good news, I mean, you're right.

I mean, uh, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Cleveland, Detroit, they've all cut back, but the good news might be in like the St.

Louis Daily, uh, Sarah's newsletter, which comes out every morning at 6:00, 6:05, and I know people are lining up for it, and it takes a No.

And then the Business Journal comes out at 700 a.m., and you can kind of uh uh plan accordingly, and it's doing gang busters, right?

You don't have any print edition.

I think people are, you know, they're happy to get something in their inbox.

They're starting to understand this whole idea of having somebody go to the warehouse in their car and pick up these newspapers and fling them around town.

It is an inefficient system.

It's kind of like when they used to drop off the glass milk bottle.

And I love that way of life.

And I hate that it's gone.

Me too.

I'm a 20th century person and uh there's new centuries difficult.

But even you graduated from your flip phone up to an iPhone.

Yes, I did.

Yes, I did.

Yes, I did.

I'm glad it's unseasonably warm because that iceberg my family's going to put me on is just sailing right now.

I just I give up.

I I tried to defend the print.

You're right.

It's dead.

It's just Alvin.

Everything you gave your life to just I think you're right though, Alvin.

I think in some form or another, it will always be available just like AM radio.

Yeah.

Somehow someway.

Same thing.

Well, let me ask you about short-term rentals like VBO, Airbnb, and the city of St.

Louis.

Uh, where do I begin?

A couple weeks ago, the Post Dispatch had a story that there's supposed to be a 3% tax on these rentals.

And so far, the city hasn't collected it, even though uh it could, but nobody told the board of alderman that the license collector supposed to collect it and it wasn't put on the ballot or something like that.

This is a tax increase in November of 2024 passed by the voter.

68% still don't have that.

And now Sarah takes a look at other aspects of the short-term rental legislation.

It was supposed to regulate short-term rentals and also assess a $150 fee on the owners of these.

The regulations haven't gone into effect yet, even though the action was taken long ago by the board.

What's going on here?

Well, it's funny because we were talking about how we get our news in the morning.

First thing I do in the morning is wake up and read Sarah's newsletter.

And I was quite stunned to see that uh that this this judge's order ended up, you know, what was supposed to be sort of like a temporary block.

And a year ago, she points out in the article that we were the last major city that did not have any regulations for these short-term rentals.

So, so yes, the judge issues a a temporary order, but then you know in in June and then now these months later, nothing is happening and nobody really knows why.

I mean, it seems like it seems like a clerical error.

It's the tornado, right?

Well, obviously.

Yeah.

So, the judge initially blocked the whole thing.

And at that point, the city's like, "Well, our hands are tied.

This thing is blocked."

But then, yeah, in June, this be temporary, though.

It was, but people thought, okay, well, this is just dragging out.

Well, in June, he modified this order in a pretty big way.

They could go ahead with these regulations as long as they don't charge the fee.

It was interesting yesterday asking around city hall.

I think a ton of people were not aware of this order.

And it's not clear exactly what happened.

It was in the wake of the tornado.

My current theory, though, is that the city is not that enthused about this legislation.

And I think Mayor Cara Spencer not a huge fan of some of these regulations and I think she wants them modified before the city has any uh plans to enforce them, which to neighbors is news.

They're not happy about it.

No, they've been they've been very patient.

Oh, I I wouldn't want to have a uh short-term rental next to me.

I I have a sister-in-law in Tucson who lives right next to it.

And there's different people coming in.

Of course, that's the idea of it.

and they're they're up late and there's parties and it it's just not something that's healthy for a neighborhood to me.

I I would tend to agree and I remember we talked about all of this on the show and how all these things we you know I think we were pretty uniform and that we agreed with all of it and then you read that none of it has happened or and I say like I'd said early like man this tornado is going to oh it's the tornado.

Yeah.

All right.

Okay.

We we're running out of tornado excuses.

It's like co the tornado is kind of like co our excuse for everything.

Two years ago the city forgot to tax marijuana and so it lost three months of revenue now.

You know I think happens is you know the taxes are like in the license collector's office or the treasur's office and they're all separated by county divisions from the mayor's office.

No one's talking to anybody.

And frankly I was in city hall not too long ago on a weekday in the afternoon.

I didn't see anybody in the whole place.

I think people must have been working remotely or I don't know where people were but I have heard you know I have never had to get a business license or whatever and I've heard it was a nightmare but I was actually in there not getting one for myself but I had to like and you were right there was like nobody in any of these offices and I said like well if I showed up right now to take care of some business I I would be out of here in 10 minutes because there's nobody here I I Right.

But that's that has not been my experience.

Maybe you guys hit it on a bad day.

There's a fair number of people around there.

I just don't know if they have the will right now.

They say that the alderman now say they're going to come back and they're going to tweak some of these regulations and they're moving forward.

I would Well, they should also because this is one of those like it's one thing to like, hey, I man, I haven't taken my check down to the bank and you have a lot of money in the bank.

It's another thing.

So, like we're scrambling for money, but yet here's a tax that we could be reaping and we're not solely because nobody knows and all that.

That's inexcusable.

Even if it's a few thousand dollars, that's a pothole.

You know, Alvin, let me ask you about uh the Ram settlement.

You know, uh it's 2021 that that money was distributed as a result of litigation between the city, the county, the regional sports authority, and uh the NFL and Stan Kroni after they moved the Rams out.

So, the the county got $169 million and we all thought, hey, uh gosh, let's let's dream about what the possibilities could be as we transform and aspire to great things.

And uh Sam Paige, the county executive, last week said, maybe we'll take $59 million and just pay the bills and parks and recreation and the health department and build some sidewalks.

Just pay the bills.

I'm The dream is over.

I've been beaten down.

I've been like I am so tired.

Spend the money, Sam.

Spend the money.

I don't care what you spend it on.

Dog pound, fixing the roads, paying the Just Just spend the money.

That's all I ask.

Just spend the money on good on good things, but just spend the money.

I I wanted to be transformational.

I wanted to do all these marvelous, wonderful, gigantic thing.

It's over.

This is No, no, no, no.

And I I Sarah and I are in complete 1,000% agreement on this.

If you tell a woman that you are going you're something is going to be transformative.

We are expecting headto toe goosebumps.

Okay.

Now you're telling us that you're essentially buying new screens for the windows in the back of the house and and and fixing the sewer line.

You're not getting a new deck after all.

Settling for spending.

Cut spending.

Do something truly transformative with this money.

This is not This is not a cookie jar on top of the refrigerator.

To me, it is.

And you got bills.

Hey.

Oh, honey.

We We could pay off the house with the money I found in the backyard when I was digging for flowers.

Or we could go to Aruba for two months.

Pay the bills.

I like Allen's idea.

The money's burning a hole in spend.

And I'm not going to tell the city how to spend their money, but as a county resident, Sam, just spend the money.

I just think this is so sad.

And I again I'm in complete agreement with Wendy here, but it's like why can't they just balance this budget?

They've got this giant budget, but they're like, "Oh, well just another 59 million here."

Like, and then what about next year?

Well, no.

We're going to balance the budget, then we're going to act right.

This is not sustainable.

And we're going to be better.

We're going to be Yeah.

Yeah.

That that all Yeah.

We're going to go to Italy right now.

Going to learn from these mistakes.

It just seems so sad that like we had these dreams of like having a better St.

Louis and now it comes to ah yeah no it's just No, it's like no no if the water pump is broke on the car that's one thing but if the engine is broken down you got to get a new car.

Look, how about we just fix it?

How about we just take this money, pay these bills, maybe fix and the county council completely off the hook.

Let them cut cost.

I listen you're right.

I'm letting them off the hook.

They can get off the hook.

just pay the bills.

They're like, "We are no longer wonder why lawmakers spend like a bunch of drunken sailors."

I mean, why did that happen?

It's a settlement.

All righty.

Uh, final topic for this illustrious program.

Sarah, the mayor has announced along with others at Lambert Field that when they start looking for minority and womenowned firms who can take part in the programs that set aside a certain number of positions or contracts for minorities and women that these groups will have to first demonstrate that they've been discriminated against before they can apply for this money.

Uh I think the reason is because the justice department has ruled that uh because of the equal protection clause of the constitution they don't believe that anyone should be favored for a contract based on race or skin color unless there's been discrimination in the past.

So what do you think?

Yeah, I think this is kind of threading the needle the way the Supreme Court has telegraphed if you want to do some of these programs that favor certain people here's the way you have to do it.

So, what I think is going to be the net result of this is any company that wants to get these types of airport contracts, they're just going to have to hire a consultant who's going to tell them, "Okay, here's the argument that you give that prove that you're part of this group that got discriminated against in this specific way."

And some consultants just going to make a lot of money helping these people get the contract that they got a couple years ago.

I I would just be honest with these contractors and and whatnot and say like you're going to have to hold on for another three years because this nonsense is not going away and you know it's all we could do or just steam forward with the program and say like by the time all the lawsuits get filed and by the time all this uh actually would actually make its way to a courtroom there'll probably be a new president and so I just but it's the Supreme Court which can rule off I'm just saying like I'm not changing that's fine but these little programs like this ain't nobody going to go to jail over that this would continue as it has under other Republican administrations.

This stuff is bad for business, but everybody's afraid of the president and nobody wants to say that out loud.

The most some of the most conservative business why is it bad for business?

Because GM, all these other places say DEI is a good thing.

The more people we can come through here, the more opportunities we can give, that helps us.

That creates dollars.

California hasn't had it since 1996.

I I I don't know how, Charlie, you you can expect people to prove that they were discriminated against when they when they can't get a contract.

I mean, right.

If you can't prove it, then how do you know that you Okay.

If if no black people got contracts at the airport for 25 years, okay, do you think there was some form of discrim?

But it's not anymore.

It hasn't been for the past.

It will be now.

won't say it will be.

I say it could be.

Yeah.

They're going to say, "Let's look at this period in St.

Louis and how many people were discriminated against.

Here's the background.

Here's where we get the contract."

And on that note, we're going to go to the old mailbag and see what people had to say about last week's show.

While I agree with the panel that a high-profile shooting in a college town is jarring and should prompt action, Chancellor Moonoi's categorization of crime in Colombia was highly exaggerated.

Thank you, Matt.

Carol of St.

Louis and MIS.

Candy and sodas can be used as part of well-rounded meals or as desserts.

Look at your own diets and tell me that you do not use candies and sodas ever.

That from Charles A. Johnston and Kim Brown of St.

Louis wrote, "Charlie said Trump didn't try to dismantle FEMA during his first administration.

So why now?"

The answer is Project 2025.

The plan to shift responsibility to the states and local governments is all in chapter five of Project 2025.

Thank you, Kim.

You can write us care of 9PBS63108.

Don't forget to email Donnybrook at9pbs.org.

Social media donnybrookst.

Call the nline 314512994 and listen to us on your favorite podcast source.

Don't forget our YouTube program.

We call it Last Call on the NinePBS channel.

This week we'll be talking about litter on gravoy.

And what about that Roosevelt high school football team?

Shouldn't something have been done differently?

We'll get into that around the corner.

Oh yeah, also John Olirri's movie.

We'll talk about whether it's a civic duty to go see Soul on Fire this weekend.

Lots to talk about on our YouTube channel.

That's it for this program.

See you next week at this time.

Donny Brook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.