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>> Well, Tuesday was election day and we've got results and analysis.

Thanks for joining us on Donnybrook.

Before we dive in, let's meet the panelists, starting with the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, one of our founders from the Post Dispatch, Bill McClellen.

Also from the Post and with STLday.com, columnist Joe Holleman, and from the St.

Louis American, Mr.

Alvin Reid.

Hey, don't forget Donnybash is one week from tonight.

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All right, Bill, we're going to kick things off with you.

I was uh kind of stunned when I saw that 18 fire districts uh were successful this past Tuesday in getting 1% sales tax increases for their districts.

this after Jacob Barker of your newspaper pointed out in Sunday's edition that uh these districts not only are running surpluses but their median salaries for the firefighters are way into six figures right not just at 101 $102,000 but beyond that that's the median so were you surprised like I was that people decided to move their sales taxes to 10% >> well I I was a little bit surprised but firefighters are popular, but you know, I'm against uh sales taxes myself.

I don't like to see them increased.

The two that I found most interesting was Florescent voted yes.

And the leading opponent of the whole thing was Tom Schneider, the former mayor of Florison.

and he was on the radio and calling people and trying to rally support a a opposition and his city voted yes.

And then the Northeast Fire District, which had so many problems a long time ago back in like 2010, I mean, it was just one thing after another.

They voted yes.

And I wondered whether things reformed o, you know, overwhelmingly reformed or whether the people just like firefighters and vote yes on it.

>> Yeah.

See, I think that's I think that's the union support and I think that I I think that is a that is a union area.

Uh I think where you know where these where they passed I think those are those are strong union areas.

And uh I I like you said firefighters are popular and I think was it Bob Nations in the paper who said that a lot of people are just hey okay firefighter good police good they they a lot maybe some folks weren't as aware >> Bob Nations we should say that Chesterfield he was a former mayor there correct and that's Monarch fire district.

That's right and the voters there turned it down.

Well, I just got to tell you that our sales tax is bonkers.

You go to Florida where they don't have an income tax and their sales tax is five and 6%.

All right.

So then you come to Missouri where we do have an income tax and you're starting to pay 10 11 at the Starbucks on grant it's already 12%.

St.

Louis is not affected by this and it does hurt the poor more.

I think that these April elections where very few people are showing up and not paying attention, they have to move to November.

I disagree with that, but I will say that, you know, like in in in Kirkwood and other municipalities, we've put like a a 1% on ourselves for roads or something like that.

So, some of these municipalities up north, it may not be at 10% yet.

I'm not saying, yeah, go add some more sales tax, but it maybe it's not that high.

I think people just basically went in and voted just yes, not even realizing that, you know, you're you're you especially in places I want to say in North County where I think most of that sales tax is going to be paid by residents of those municipalities.

I think other places it's probably 5050 because people come into there and shop.

>> Oh, well, wait till people start buying their automobiles and pay a 10% tax.

An additional 1% on a $30,000 car is an extra $300 in sales tax.

Talking to the guy, >> I think the point about moving the elections is valid because what happens, and you pointed to union uh getting their people out and that's what happens in these April elections that are isolated from the general November election.

The only people going out are the people with a direct motivation, right?

And so you can get your people to go out, but the general member of the public probably doesn't show up when you look at the turnouts of these.

But if you have it in November where you're voting for congressman or every four years when you have a president's race, you're going to get more people to the polls and I think communities get a better reading of what their people.

>> Let's look at the numbers.

St.

Louis city this year not affected by the fire districts.

13% came out last year for the mayoral race in this is a mayoral contest uh between Tashara and Cara 26% came out the year before in April 7%.

The year before that 19%.

I mean these April elections are a joke.

>> Well well even even in November don't more than half the people stay home.

>> Well 60% in 2024 in the city of St.

Louis.

Okay.

Well, I I mean nationwide, >> but it's significantly more than show up for April, which gives you a better reading in these fire districts of what everybody in the district wants other than the ones with a vested interest in >> Okay, I asked about it when I voted uh on on Tuesday.

And the thing is is that he said like, okay, if everything was moved, let's say, to this November, especially then two years later in the presidential election, your ballot won't be one, you know, like you're going to have like five sheet ballots and they are concerned about the length it's going to take to vote all that and it's just a reality.

Okay, now you can say, but they're the people that are actually working the polls.

I'm just saying that I think you will get some outcomes that that that not you won't like what I'm saying philosophically.

It will be because people are just there voting on stuff they have no idea what they're >> back a moment to the sales tax.

You know the governor's plan is to eliminate the income tax and move that revenue to the sales tax.

So if that happens are we talking 15 16%?

We could be >> at some point.

Yeah.

As soon as they figure out like a hotel motel tax, but instead it'll be on a Starbucks.

>> I mean, literally after because if if the state passes that and then they'll say like, well, we have to have this much money or else we won't blah blah.

They'll always find a way to not reenact that tax uh your personal property tax and so it'll keep climbing.

So, yes, it could very easily be 15.

So Wendy, what did you think about what happened in Fesus where all four incumbents uh lost their bid for reelection and not one of them came within 30 percentage points of the opponent.

They were all trounced.

>> Yeah.

>> And this is of course on April 7th.

On March 30th, the city council in Fesus approved a $6.6 billion data center.

And I thought, well, people in the auditorium were angry.

Apparently all the voters were angry too.

Even the council member who voted against the data data center, he was thrown out.

>> Guilty by association.

Yeah, it it was it was something democracy in action.

And as Bill said, the pitchforks, the torches, I mean, they they were not messing around.

And one of the the the women who was quoted in the post- dispatch story, you know, she said they wanted to believe or at least present it as, you know, oh, this is just a teeny tiny faction of voters and everybody else is on board.

Oh, no, no, no, they're not.

And they have they're going to apparently have very long memories.

The turnout was five times apparently what it's been uh recently.

And um what what I think is kind of interesting though is they have entered into a contract.

I mean the the the previous outgoing outgoing uh city council they have entered into a contract.

So all the current council can really hope for is to put the brakes on it.

I don't know if that is enough, but uh but but I I don't think I don't know if this is going to have a chilling effect on data centers though.

I I I really don't know because there is too much money in a financially strapped region.

>> Well, it'll have a a dramatic effect on politicians who have to vote a week before the election.

>> That's right.

That timing is everything.

I remember Roy Blunt telling me once that negative emotions like anger and hatred are much stronger when it comes to getting the vote out.

That's right.

>> You know, people don't necessarily rush to the polls because they like something.

That's right.

>> I was happy to see it.

I was happy to see >> the the people win.

I just if if I live there, I'd be thinking like, look, if they weren't smart enough to like postpone this vote for like a couple two, three weeks, then I don't know if I wanted them to represent me anyway.

>> I'm absolutely 100%.

He's like, you couldn't put what?

Yeah.

Uh I'm glad, like I say, if people were really upset about it and seemed like they were in those gymnasiums and they're there till I guess that's one of the ones that were there till 4:00 in the morning.

You got to read those, you know, kind of like tea leaves.

And I'm not surprised that this happened.

You know, I I think people have contracts that play on teams and all of a sudden the somebody buys the team and the they fire the coach and the general manager and I'm a player.

I'm thinking like, you know, that sweet deal I had is still a deal, but it ain't going to be the same.

And I think the uh dead center people, even though they have a contract, they know that we're going to have to cross some tees and dot some eyes that we didn't have to before.

>> I I I would I would hope it would bring a couple of changes.

One, the companies that want to build these be more forthcoming as to who they are, right?

I think that's always been something that hamstrung their proposals where it's we want to build this by a company we don't want to name >> that just I think struck people wrong right away and they have to come out there and show exactly how they're going to be protected from increased electrical and water costs.

So hopefully these votes the people speaking if you will makes them do a better job of the presentation because I believe at some point as Wendy said they will be built.

they'll just move farther and farther away to some county that desperately needs the money and they will get built.

>> There may be a reason why uh these owners don't want to be identified and one reason might be Ronan Pharaoh's bio biography of uh Burrough's grad Sam Alman in this week's New Yorker which makes him look like a guy who cannot be trusted whatsoever.

I I um I >> Well, then it ends up like this every time when you get defeated.

You know, I'm not condemning all business people by anything.

But this whole thing where like, oh, he came off as he can't be trusted.

Well, 80% of the American public would said like anybody with that amount of money, I would not trust them.

They have cut corners, right?

You know, and I don't mean that they're dishonest.

I'm just saying like if I got the short end of a dealing with this individual, be they conservative, liberal, whatever, I would say that's how business is.

That's >> Hey Joe, I want to ask you about what happened uh at the uh Rittner Middle School this past week when officers dressed in tactical gear from the Hillsdale Police Department showed up and started asking about the status of some of the students.

Rittener Middle is one-third Latino and Hillsdale is a small village, 1200 people.

Uh but apparently it's got some sort of contract with the Immigration Customs Enforcement.

They call that the 287G plan where there's kind of a there's a financial incentive for police departments to round up people who are not here legally.

>> Do you think that the Hillsdale police should be visiting a middle school in uh I don't know where was this, Overland or Charlac?

>> I'm not sure that I have any objection over that other than should a police officer be visiting a middle school if they thought one of the children in there had committed a crime.

I'm I'm not sure what the what the difference is that that that they're a law enforcement agency that shouldn't be allowed to do that.

>> Well, they didn't have they didn't have a warrant.

Apparently, they didn't >> or no law enforcement agency can go and ask a question.

I want to know what what is the line that you draw as to should no law enforcement people be allowed to enter school grounds?

Well, look, I I would say that whatever line it is, Joe, it definitely should exclude somebody from another jurisdiction wearing battle gear going in to ask about children.

I mean, if there's a problem with some parents, let let ICE go and talk to the parents.

But I don't think that policemen, even in regular uniform, but let alone in full battle rattle, should be going to a middle school.

Well, I don't know what their uniform requirement is.

I know that when the county police or city police go to a school, they're wearing their uniform.

I don't know what ICE >> is.

Well, the ICE uniform apparently is this full battle rattle and look and and I think that's crazy to send guys like that to a school.

>> Okay.

I'm just saying so they're dressed in what they're supposed to be dressed in.

And then when they went to the school, they were told, "No, you need to go to the district office," which they did.

>> Mhm.

>> And so I I guess >> without a a warrant apparently.

So, they didn't have a reason to arrest the kids.

Go ahead.

What's your argument?

>> The argument is is what what is it they did wrong other than you didn't like what they did?

>> They intimidated little children.

I mean, I think that's wrong.

I will also say that the the the incentive for Hillsdale being there was not immigration enforcement.

The incentive was money.

The incentive is they're getting paid to do this.

And so, they can't not do anything.

So now they're showing up at school frightening at little children for money, not for immigration enforcement.

And that's terrible.

>> And I even, you know, let's face it, should Hillsdale even have a police department?

I mean, this is a joke that the federal government would engage with uh, you know, Barney Fe and whoever else is in charge of these small little village police departments and say, "Okay, what we want to do is multiply the officers we have to route out people.

Go to where they work.

go to where they study, which is things that human beings should be doing, and let's get rid of them.

Let's deport them.

>> Human beings also should not have anyone that they love killed by anyone else who is here illegally.

>> But that's what the little kid I'm not saying.

You're talking about ICE.

I'm sorry.

>> Conspiracy to commit murder and I'm in third grade.

Okay.

This is law enforcement.

Another thing, another thing ICE could know that there was a Latino child in the Leoo school district whose parents were both illegals and went on TV and said, "We are illegal.

We don't care.

Come arrest us."

ICE would not show up at uh Leoo Middle School.

I don't know if that's You have no proof of what you just said.

>> I I have absolute proof of what I said, Alvin.

I live it.

>> Okay.

I live it >> that they were sent to Leoo.

No, Alvin.

I mean what the thing is the question boils down to the fact is is that you do or do not believe that some way now whether you like the specific method but does some way is a government allowed to find people who are here illegally and remove them.

It's a yes or no question.

It's a yes or no question.

>> No, it is not a yes no question.

it the the question in front of us is whether these guys from Hillsdale police dressed in their ICE tactical uniforms should be going to a middle school and elementary school >> and I would say no >> should police officers dressed in their uniform be allowed to go to a middle school difference there's a big difference though Joe let's move on let's move on other topics >> the third grader knows on the flooris all right to another topic And Alvin, I want to know your opinion.

Cara Spencer, the mayor of the great city of St.

Louis, has sued the state over the police board of commissioners.

You know, there's been this budget dispute.

They might want $330 million for their annual budget.

She might be willing to pay $225 million.

Well, she kind of said to come come to think of it, I don't even know why you exist.

Should should, for example, the police board of commissioners be able to give the police officers lifetime health insurance, should they be able to dictate the budget and not pay for it?

So, she's suing the state over the constitutionality of the state takeover of the police, >> which others did back in September and they got scoffed at.

Megan Green, others.

Oh, so now the mayor is basically suing about the existence of the state takeover which others said should have been done long ago.

What only thing that changed was people felt back then the way the mayor does right now.

You get shoved in your face enough and she sits in those meetings and get and she got tired of it and she said like you know what not only do I represent the city of St.

Louis but I represent me and this ain't right.

So now she over sees a light.

Point of clarification.

Uh Mark Maxwell said that she also said she'll no longer cut the grass at police stations.

The city will no longer do that.

Is that true?

>> Okay.

Don't know.

I I I there are I I disagree with you on that.

There are some differences between the lawsuit.

There were three lawsuits filed, right?

And this is the third one >> and hers is different.

>> Okay.

But but >> and I will >> Why didn't she do this back in September?

>> Because I'll let you finish.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to interrupt >> because she never had a budget proposal back when when Megan Green filed suit.

It was a theoretical suit on the constitutionality of what the legislature did.

Now, what Cara Spencer has is an actual budget to where she says here it is.

And what this the important part of this suit when we get done with all the theory and conjecture, what this will do is is what it's going to ask for is defining what constitutes general revenue funds, which is the question that needs to be answered before you can say here's a percentage for the police.

There's not in a question that there's a certain percentage has to go to the police.

The question is what counts as general revenue.

And this lawsuit unlike the others elimination of the state police takeover there's another thing about it and aside from the legal arguments and the theories when a person says well I'll try and I'll try to work with you right >> instead of immediately saying I'm not doing anything when when the person appears to be reasonable and says I'll try to work with you and then it doesn't work and says okay I tried and it didn't work.

I have more sympathy for that person.

>> Okay.

So, if you get hit by a car and you say like, I'm gonna see if I can work this out with the person that hit me with the car and after I don't get any money, then I'm sued.

I should have sued today.

>> I think what Bill was saying, which was my other point, the mayor went in and tried to negotiate with them.

Now, when you go into court, you can say we tried.

The first suit got filed.

The first suit got filed because that side just didn't like the state taking it before because she has the evidence of what they tried to just despite the fact that Megan Green's lawsuit completely overlooked the fact that this had been done before and it was constitutional.

>> She sued.

The mayor should have been right in line SAID LIKE, "HEY, LISTEN.

THIS IS HOW WE PROCEED."

HEY, ALL I KNOW GUYS, Chicago Tribune today reports that shootings are up in Chicago.

And as you know, uh, your papers have all reported that uh, we had the best first three months in the city of St.

Louis in terms of homicides in 25 years.

>> Your point being >> My point being is uh, who's at the helm?

The board of police commissioners.

>> Well, it's been going down for months and months and months, right?

>> Well, those never been this low.

>> No, because it keeps going down.

>> Well, it's it's down.

So, does this mean we get to stop the argument about how more gun laws are better because Illinois has a bunch of them and Missouri has less.

So, I'm I'm happy to see those numbers.

>> It could be that so many people have left the city of St.

Louis, including Chicago to Chicago.

>> Could have been Could have been.

>> All right.

Who's next?

Uh, I'm supposed to go to Bill.

I guess it might be Bill.

>> Yeah, it's short for William Bill.

Uh, could I ask you about uh legislation in Jefferson City which would increase penalties for drunk driving specifically?

>> And this is a horrible circumstance, but if you're driving with 0.15 blood alcohol content and you kill two people, you're facing 10 years in prison.

If you're driving with 0.15 and you kill one person, you get an automatic five years.

Do you think this is going to work?

>> Well, the thing I like about that is the, you know, I don't like it when they try to lower the blood alcohol level.

You know, like right now it's 0.07, I think.

And I've heard arguments to make it 0.05.

And I think those aren't the people going the wrong way on the highways.

The people going the wrong way on the highways are the people who are up over 15, 2.2.

And I've talked to I wrote that and an emergency room physician said said you're right.

I mean the people that we see are not the people who had two drinks.

They're the people who had six drinks.

And so I like like this law.

I like the idea that if you're over 1.5 and you kill somebody, you should go to prison.

I'm fine with that.

to read about these these sentences being reduced after the loss of these loved ones when they're you know they say that that my sentence without my child is a life it's a life sentence and that the the politics of this you know just compounds the nightmare for these families that you know we have done everything we can to change things but people still continue to get those sentences reduced people still keep dying in drunk driving accidents I think that I think we have done an incredible job at at turning the tide.

This is an opportunity to turn it back even further.

>> I I would disagree with Bill.

I I like the lower blood alcohol content.

Ireland is at 0.05.

Italy is at 0.05.

We're we're 0.08, right?

>> But are they mandatory prison sentences for that?

>> No, but they enforce it.

You see, that's the thing.

And you lose your car if you're caught driving at 0.05.

>> But this law doesn't change the lower penalties.

But but there doesn't seem to be any because we see all the time.

Have you have you ever heard of anyone losing their car >> and are and >> and their license?

>> No, not really.

>> We've had famous people that we've talked about on this program who are caught and nothing happens whether their coaches.

>> Well, let's go outside the famous people to all the unfamous people who got their licenses suspended or 30 days in jails.

There are famous people who are no longer driving cars because it's a family car.

You can't take somebody's car.

Other people may use it.

I get that.

I would not be surprised if this didn't pass only because I think that there will be some debate behind closed doors that who you know the people that actually you know you didn't mean to kill anybody, right?

And so no, what I'm saying is I know what you're saying.

Listen, this could be one of our kids.

This could be one of us.

>> We don't want to I don't think we want our kids or our relatives going to prison for 5 years automatically if something like this happens.

I just think that 20 seconds.

>> Well, I was going to say I remember when Vince Bamarito was on the police board and I wrote a column that if they set up a uh >> checkpoint >> checkpoint outside of his restaurant, everybody would be 00708. you know, so I I I don't know about >> I just I think that that 1.5 prison if you kill somebody that's good.

>> There might be designated drivers >> as there should have to find restaurants.

Okay, >> let's see what the viewers had to say about last week's program.

Shall we?

When discussing how St.

Charles County is in an agreement with ICE, you inferred that the residents wanted this agreement.

As a resident of St.

Charles County, I was given no opportunity to vote on such an agreement.

I would have voted no.

That from Nancy Borders's wing of St.

Charles.

Yes, indeed.

52% of St.

Louisans in 1900 were immigrants, but they didn't come here illegally at the time.

Thank you.

They're from Karen Whitaker, self-described faithful watcher of Donny Brook from St.

Louis.

Thank you, Karen.

And you are correct about our tremendous water asset much more precious than gold which is precisely why we should be extremely circumspect about data centers.

That from Jane O'Donnell.

Thank you Jane.

You can write us care of 9PBS63108.

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