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Thank you so much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

Great to have you with us.

We appreciate you being with us every Thursday or whenever you watch or listen to the program.

Well, we've got a very strange story kicking off tonight's episode.

But first, let's meet the panelists.

Starting with Wendy Weise, the media veteran.

Bill McClellan, columnist, St.

Louis Post-Dispatch.

From the 314 Podcast and the Daily Newsletter and St.

Louis Magazine, Sarah Fenske.

And from the St.

Louis American, we welcome Alvin Reid, who's leading off first at bat on this edition.

Alvin, I thought it was very weird to read, I think it was Austin Hoogelaar's story in today's Post-Dispatch, that St.

Louisans who thought they'd get some reprieve from the train horns at night, which have been blasting throughout all those sleeping hours because the city of St.

Louis has not maintained the railroad crossings at hundreds of streets.

We're talking about the crossings, the signage, the pavement markers.

The city of St.

Louis is responsible for fixing them before the Federal Railroad Administration decides, okay, you can be a quiet zone, we won't have to blast our horns at 2 in the morning.

Well, it turns out, according to this morning's Post-Dispatch, that the city also has to repair about 30 crossings in St.

Louis County, crossings that are not even in the city.

And the horns of the trains will keep on blasting as long as the city doesn't repair them.

What do you think?

Well, you ever read a story where you say, this can't be right.

That was it.

I'm thinking, like, you know, for some reason, the explanation should be higher in the story, but there's an explanation in the story.

There was no explanation for this.

And you kept reading for it.

And it kept, I guess it, at least the story says kind of that it goes back to this deal was signed when Francis Slay was the mayor.

So you can't blame this one on Tishari Jones or the, who was it?

Carter Crewson.

Right.

You can't blame them.

This goes all the way back to the Slay administration.

Why would they sign off on this deal?

There's got to be a reason.

And I don't think it's a good reason, but somebody needs to find out.

Because there is no way that a sitting mayor would say, like, yeah, we'll take care of the crossings other outside of our border.

Why would you do that?

Unless some, something's wrong.

I don't mean to be the naive person on the panel, but I think that what probably happened is it wasn't somebody taking money necessarily.

I think it was just the easy thing to do.

That the Fed said, oh, you got to take care of this and this.

Okay, well, we just want this done.

And we'll sign it.

And we're thinking of the next quarter, the next year, not 20 years.

But you're taking responsibility on yourself for something that you're not responsible for.

Why would you say, well, fix our own, but we're not going to fix anybody else.

Yeah, they didn't take responsibility for any of it.

So if you're like, oh, I'm not going to do ours, it's like, I also won't do the county's.

And we, I, I absolutely remember a number of conversations around this table where we were trying to figure out if this was one of the, if, if whatever issue was one of those things that happened when Mayor Francis Slade turned the light out and was walking, you know what I mean?

It was one of the, oh, but, but, but, you know, and, and, and he privatized the airport.

You know, so it, it seems like that because this is not Hooterville.

I don't know.

St.

Louis, Missouri.

And his chief of staff was Jeff Rainford.

And I would think of all the chiefs of staff at 200 room, 200 city hall, the one least likely to agree to something like this would have been Jeffrey.

Yeah.

Here's the thing.

I don't know that this would have seemed like a big deal back in the day.

I think it's like, oh, let's just get the ones nearby.

Like you can have your quiet zone.

If you also take care of some of this stuff, that's like, it's like a quarter mile away.

That's not far.

You barely have to drive.

Let's just get this done.

And when do we have to worry about it?

In 20 years.

And now it feels like a big deal because they're, we're trying to play catch up all at once and people are freaking out.

The place that cares more about a municipality border than any metropolitan area, probably in the world, let alone the United States of America.

All of a sudden.

Oh yeah.

We'll take care of that.

I'm here to tell you that is all one sided.

That is County people saying, we don't want to deal with the city in the city.

We're like, we're all St.

Louis.

Like we feel just the way you share the airport with the county.

We're not giving up our money.

Do we take responsibility for a lot of things?

We should now.

Yes.

I'm looking forward to part two of that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Awesome.

Looking forward to it.

Hey, I want to ask you, speaking of the County, you city dweller, you there's a crisis financial crisis.

We are told in St.

Louis County such that there's a proposal to cut the park Rangers.

There are 70 parks in St.

Louis County and a total of nine park Rangers currently, although there are 28 slots, but the County says it can't afford these park Rangers.

You know, there's a lot of people who are in distress when you're recreating in a park.

So they're talking about maybe increasing the rent for Lohmeyer sculpture park or the butterfly house, maybe selling some of the parks or just eliminating the Rangers.

What do you think?

I think the County budget is very screwed up and I don't get the sense that anybody has gone through this in a holistic way.

I was actually just talking to Dennis Hancock.

Who's the Republican running for County executive.

And he pointed out all these things where he's like, yeah, we've just always kind of looked for the low hanging fruit.

Oh, we've got this thing here.

We could just take care of.

It's like, has anybody looked at this systematically?

I don't know that they have.

And so I think somebody's going, yeah, like we have all these unfilled positions anyway, let's just get rid of this.

I don't know that that's the proper way to budget when you're dealing with like this deficit that has been ongoing.

I feel like there's all these things where we need to just kick the can down the road, just a couple more months.

We have like a lame duck situation here, but whoever gets in there next, that their number one job needs to be going through that budget with a fine tooth comb.

There seems to be, everybody seems aware that there is a ton of fat in that budget.

Well, it's one crisis after another though.

I mean, all of a sudden you're, you have to deal with what are we going to do with the dogs, the jail.

What are we going to do with the jail?

And what, and now what are we going to do with the County building?

We can't even be in.

Right.

You know, so it's really hard for these people to look long, just like you signed something.

Same thing.

It's a short term thinking.

Okay.

Just if, if the incoming County executive signs a bill where we have the County take something across the border in the city, he won't be the County.

I just park Rangers serve a purpose and I'm a park person.

In all fairness, I was on the parks and recreation board in that place I live.

I won't even say the name it's Kirkland, but you know, I, you gotta don't fire the park Rangers, find the money to pay them because they do do a service that the everyday police don't do.

And I know that there's open positions and there's open positions in many police departments, but I think that it's important that you try to fill those because park Rangers fulfill a mission that the police really don't want to do.

And that's, I agree.

Yeah, no, I, you know, the County could roll up the property tax.

It hasn't been rolled up in 42 years.

In other words, you can increase the property tax to the level the higher level without voter approval.

That's true.

So it's low.

It hasn't been increased.

And the weird thing about this rule is that it can only be done in even numbered years, the years when there's an assessment.

And those are generally the years when the County council runs for office.

So someone's going to have to be brave sometime and say, Hey, we're going to have to raise taxes.

And I think I don't think we're getting forget the sales tax, no sales tax.

That's regressive.

But a lot of people in the County have made a lot of money through the stock market in recent years and, and through the values of their homes.

According to what survey?

No, no, no.

There's no Charlie there.

There's a lot of wealth now in St.

Louis for working people and people who have young families.

Inflation is through the roof.

Utilities are through the roof.

There are so many people who are barely getting by.

If the choice is we have to get rid of all the park Rangers or we have to raise taxes.

I'm going to say we got to get rid of the park Rangers.

People cannot afford to live.

We have already closed.

How many pools?

Yeah, I really do think we can look at this in a better way, but, and I hate to say it, but as somebody, I love Creek core lake.

I love knowing that the park Rangers are there.

If anybody needs them, because there are all sorts of aquatic things going on at times.

You've got families, but I, if that's, I don't want to sell any land, not even a postage stamp of, of the park that the park lands that we do have.

Do we need park Rangers?

I mean, we all have nine.

I mean, you need park Rangers, but we have seven, like seven of them.

We have seven.

No, but with how many parks right now, if you get rid of the park Rangers, the police have to step in.

No, I understand that.

But we have seven park Rangers right now for dozens of parks.

And 70 set.

Right.

So I haven't read anything.

Those positions need to be filled.

And I know it's a money crunch, but I'll, I'll, I will say this too.

People talk about closing parks.

Okay.

Now.

A great deal of St.

Louis County.

God bless the residents.

I figured like, well, it's going to be the North county parks or way down there on Lee may.

And the second you talk about, Hey, we're going to close Creek core park.

Tell us.

Oh, no, you're not right.

So, Hey, let's protect all the parks.

I, I, I, I think there are a lot of expenses in St.

Louis County.

And someone's just going to have to be brave and say, look, you know, the good thing about a property tax is that the more property you have, the bigger the mansion, the more you're going to pay.

I agree.

The smaller the home, the less you have, the less you'll pay.

And I live out there.

I live in like we have a small house, but Sarah in places around me.

Money is flush.

I mean, people are adding on additions.

They are doing this.

About Kirkwood.

I'm talking about North county.

I'm talking about South county.

You're in a very privileged.

What I'm saying is if the, the more property you have, like you say, if you raised it a dime, the people in North kind of be paying the extra $12 a year and somebody else will be paying an extra $12,000.

Okay.

I know.

I know.

I know.

That's exactly.

Let's move on to the next topic.

Only because time is limited as it always is.

One day I want to ask you about the lure library, which has been on the campus of Webster and Eden theological since 1969.

It was a shared facility, which was kind of clever back in the day.

Well, now it's empty.

And the new president or chancellor of Webster university, Tim Cain wants to demolish it says he can't find a buyer.

It's costing his university $700,000 a year.

And yet it's a very nice building, highly acclaimed by the Milwaukee architect, William Wenzler who designed it years ago.

It's a, it's, it's part of our heritage.

What do you think?

Should we demolish it?

Webster officials say no.

They say no.

So there's a standoff between obviously Webster university and, and the, the city officials.

I am still flabbergasted when I read about a building that was, that was constructed in 19 built in 1969 being on the national list of historic places, 1969.

That's like the ancient ruins of Bush stadium.

You know, when we built the new Bush stadium, I just don't think that I don't think that 1969 makes it a historically significant.

What makes the arch historic?

Cause it opened in 1966.

I mean, we look at the arch, like it's an old thing.

And it's worth preservation.

Well, it's bigger.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's not all that unique.

I just don't, I just don't think to me.

Yeah, it is.

And maybe because I'm old and don't say it.

Well, maybe it's because I'm old.

I think it's inside.

It's got these like concrete arches, which are considered architecturally significant.

Okay.

Okay.

But like, just like the concrete arches down at Bush stadium, remember?

And I wish they were still there.

I do too.

What is fascinating though, is the $700,000 and it is still in a state of disrepair.

There is mold there.

It's just like the, it's like the apartment complexes or apartment complex that we talked about last week and the jail, but, and to Sarah's point, a few weeks ago, why can't we build buildings that last?

I'm sorry.

I know I'm getting, I'm getting ahead of myself.

I feel like I agree with the Webster.

I agree with the Webster city council, you know, leave it, leave it alone until you can find somebody.

I think this is more personal than anything.

I agree.

I think that Webster groves doesn't like Webster university.

And it was growing so fast and buying up homes and encroaching on stuff and being kind of the big bully.

And all of a sudden it's had its comeuppance.

And now I think that the Webster rolls.

I wasn't aware of that at all.

I think so.

I think it's personal, Alvin.

I think they're saying, well, too bad.

You can't tear it down.

I don't want them to tear it down.

Also.

What are they trying to sell it for?

Because if I own something that was costing me $700,000 a year, I'm unloading it.

They can't find buyers.

Because they're probably asking too much for it.

Right.

When you can't sell something, generally you lower your price.

But you have this lack of, I mean, there's absolutely no agreement on what constitutes something that is falling down and something that's still quite, you know, viable.

Why does it have mold?

Why is it run down?

I say it's the landlord's problem.

You're the one who, I mean, if there was mold in my house, we would rectify the situation.

I feel bad for the president of Webster because they came in after what seems like clear mismanagement and people who were just cashing in.

And he is trying to right the ship.

And I really felt for him saying, you know, if you don't let us do this, we're just going to have to fire more people.

And we won't have classes.

But that is not an idle threat.

They have fired a lot of people.

And you know what?

General Motors says that.

And so and so.

No, no.

They all say that we don't get our way.

We're going to have to fire people.

They have about 350 programs.

And Tim Cain cut half of them.

Well, I get that.

I'm just saying that all of this, like, we're going to have to fire people if we can't sell this building.

But they just bought it in 2010.

Well, that's their fault.

I mean, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

So sell it.

Let's move on.

Bill, I want to ask you about what happened October 7th at Lambert Field, an unmarked truck parks outside Terminal 1 at 630 in the evening.

Police from the airport investigated.

Their dogs suggested there was something explosive in it.

They thought, who knows, maybe in this age of attacks on international airports, that someone was going after Lambert.

So they actually cut off all cars going to arrivals and departures until 10 minutes after 9 o'clock.

Turns out the truck belonged to ICE, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.

They were trying to arrest some 20-year -old Indian woman who was not here legally, they thought.

Why would an ICE truck not have plates?

Why would it park and not tell police?

What do you think of this?

Well, ICE doesn't feel they're answerable to anybody.

I mean, I think it's all crazy what's going on and the authority and the power ICE has.

So I blame all of this on ICE.

I think that if ICE wants to park a big truck without license plates next to the airport, it's incumbent upon them to tell the airport, please, this thing that you don't have to tell anybody anything, it's crazy.

I thought they did.

I thought they did tell.

Well, the airport said all we knew is that they were doing some sort of exercise and that it was related to terrorism.

So if you see a car with no plates, that's exactly what they tell you to be on alert for when it might be terrorism.

So I get why they reacted the way they reacted.

I mean, they have to react like that.

And ICE isn't in any trouble about it.

Well, you don't think public embarrassment?

Oh, you're giving me the shock.

I just put it this way.

I think ICE should be disbanded.

I think it's just hideous and awful.

It's a bigger deal that they're killing people up in Minnesota than it is they left a truck parked out in front of the airport.

But all of these operations, it's the same sort of like they don't care about transparency, they don't feel like they have to explain themselves, they don't feel like they have to follow the law.

It's the same playbook as Minnesota, and it's disgusting.

Okay, I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm just saying of the hierarchy of ICE problems, this one is pretty low.

Sure, but this is a good example.

Because they weren't there for an ugly reason, but they were there for a reason.

Now, my buddy Roger Lotz said, look, air traffic was not disrupted, but he didn't say that people missed their flights.

They probably didn't miss flights.

You got to believe some people did.

Because if you don't allow cars to enter the arrival or departure area, where are they going?

Some nearby parking lot?

You know it was crazy.

And the parking lot's small anyway.

I was there this morning to drop two of my grandkids off, and there was no parking.

This woman that they were supposedly after, this is not somebody who's been accused of any crime other than they feel like her paperwork is not in order.

It's a 23-year-old who was undoubtedly here for college.

It's terrible.

I'm not excusing any ICE's behavior.

But do we know concretely that this was a young woman who was just here on a student visa?

This is a 23-year-old from India.

I think odds are very high.

I have a feeling that if she were a terrorist, ICE would let us know.

I mean, ICE isn't one to be doing important things and not tell us.

I mean, I think there's no way that they wouldn't tell us in defense if this was an important thing.

You know, I'm thinking of this car they have with no license plates.

I'm thinking all the people I see driving terribly around my neighborhood, cutting people off, not having registered vehicles.

I'm like, how many of those are actually ICE agents?

And we blame the bad St.

Louis drivers.

We have no idea what these guys are up to.

You're right.

Well, it's a little bit off the menu, but I thought I'd bring it up because Senator Eric Schmidt had a press conference today saying that federal forces combined together in downtown St.

Louis from between mid-August and mid -October, two months, ATF, U.S.

Attorney's Office, of course the FBI, and crime has gone down.

They're taking credit for it.

What do you think about that, Bill?

Well, I think that these things go on a lot.

They have these under different administrations.

ATF and DEA and the U.S.

Attorney's Office working with the city police, and it's all good.

The feds have a lot of resources, and the city police can use the help.

Well, I'm happy to see the federal government taking action here, but, you know, crime is down around the country.

We have 91 homicides this year.

Buffalo, which is larger than us, actually the same size, they have 12.

Miami, which is larger than us, has 8.

You know, the only thing I didn't like about the announcement of this task force was the press release that Senator Schmidt's office sent out which said that under the soft on -crime Biden administration, violence soared.

And I looked it up.

I thought, I don't think so.

And homicides in St.

Louis went down every year under Biden, and I'm not saying Biden had anything to do with that.

I'm just saying I would like to see, at some time, just a little stop to partisanship and just say this is a good thing we've done and just take credit for it.

Wasn't part of that also during COVID?

I mean, when we had the, you know, we had to stay home.

We were sheltered.

I guess, yeah.

Homicides went way up in those years.

Yeah, I was going to say, I think people were just tired of each other.

I'm not making a joke of it, but it did kind of go up.

You thought it would go down.

Sarah, I want to ask you about a beloved restaurant.

In fact, people, I used to ask our listeners, hey, family's coming in from out of town, where should we take them?

And people would say Mission Taco, right?

And it was a great place to take family and friends.

Well, it was announced this week that this company, now known as Session Taco, is completely going out of business.

How did that happen?

Yeah, I mean, it's heartbreaking.

They had some litigation that ended up being very complicated for them in that they had to change their name.

It was a trademark lawsuit, and the owner said that was a big part of this.

I think they're also a victim of much bigger trends, and that's, you know, people just aren't going out as much.

They're not drinking as much when they do go out.

I have a group of friends.

We used to regularly go to Mission Taco Tuesday night.

We'd all get a bunch of drinks.

Now, when we go out, it might be a Friday night, and that's the one time that restaurants are crowded.

We might have one drink or no drinks.

Restaurants make their money on booze.

You know, the fact everyone's on GLP-1s and drinking a lot less, eating less, the restaurant industry is going to see increasing contraction.

This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the closures.

I was so impressed by the fact that they said, you know what, it's on us.

We had this lawsuit.

That makes me root for these brothers, you know, in the future and hope for the best for them.

But when they said the rebranding was the really tough part, and I get that, you know, because they said we're restaurateurs.

We are not marketing geniuses.

So that hurt them.

But they had a great product, and I hope that maybe somehow, and one of them is going to go to work for another restaurant and bring all of that genius with him.

So I hope it all works out for them, and maybe they get another crack at it.

Remember the, I guess it was Warner Brothers cartoon, with the Michigan J Frog, and he would sing and whatever, and the guy, nobody came to see the singing frog until he said free beer.

And then there was like a stampede.

Hey, if you want to get somebody into your restaurant, you don't have to give liquor away free, but you got to get people in the door.

I'm telling you, I'm a blue plate special guy.

I think there's ways that people don't want to go down that path.

It does not have to be the greatest meal in the world, but I'm telling you, you can do stuff to get people in the doors.

I don't know.

We're an older town now.

We're an older town, and the younger folks don't really like to go out late at night.

They stay home.

They watch Netflix, which wasn't around 20 years ago.

They have DoorDash, which wasn't around 20 years ago, and they're not going out as much.

And the young people gamble, right?

Online, sure, there's a lot of sports betting.

Yeah, I have a friend who does a lot of work with Budweiser, and they see gambling as a big threat.

That's their biggest competitor right now because kids would rather stay home and play on their phone than go out and have some beers.

It's a problem.

Well, not only that, but in the county, the population today is lower than it was in 1990, and the same is true in the city of St.

Louis.

So there are fewer people out there right now.

Look, the backbone of American society, which is the baby boomer generation, is out here drinking and smoking and gambling.

Everybody needs to get on board, right, Bill?

That's because we have disposable income.

We didn't have when we had young people.

Our kids are grown.

Right.

Plus we're in bed at 8 o'clock.

I'm just saying that when I had no money, I found a way to be out in the street somehow.

But you've got to reach these young people, and I think you can.

I don't know.

I'd want to reach them and go to Denver.

Well, go to Kansas City and ask them.

That's your assignment for next week, young person.

I'm not going to Kansas City or Denver.

No, I don't like those cities.

That's it for the first part.

We do have last call coming up, but you can always write us and share your opinions on the program, and you can do so by writing to 9PBS63108.

Don't forget those e-mails.

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Donnybrook at 9PBS.org.

On social media, use hashtag DonnybrookSTL.

Also, don't forget to listen to us on your favorite podcast source, wherever you might be.

Our program, Last Call, is on the Donnybrook YouTube channel, and this week we'll talk about possible changes to the way St.

Louis City is governed.

A proposal was made by the mayor and others this week, so we hope you join us for that.

Thank you so much for joining us for this edition of the program.

We'll see you next time.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.