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>> Hey, thanks for so much for joining us for Donnybrook.

Great to have you with us.

Believe it or not, the Olympics are coming back to St.

Louis in 2028.

We'll talk about that among other things.

But um first, let's meet the panelists.

There she is, the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, Mr.

Bill McClellen from the St.

Louis Post Dispatch from St.

Louis magazine, the 314 podcast, and the daily newsletter, she's Sarah Fenske.

And from the St.

Louis American, Alvin Reid.

Sarah, we're going to start with you because there's a breaking story uh breaking news, I should say, in St.

Louis and that is that the city has promulgated some regulations and ideas governing data centers.

You know, these big pieces of infrastructure which supply info to uh Google and Facebook and uh help people use AI and other I guess high-tech information, but nobody seems to want them.

These data centers have united both Republicans and Democrats and rural people and urbanites.

They all hate them around the country.

People are showing up and they're saying we don't want data centers.

Is the city coming up with rules that people are going to like?

>> Well, I don't know if people are going to like them.

They do seem to me to be pretty common sense and like well thought out at at least as far as a starting point, which is what they want them to be.

So, five months ago, there was a lot of people calling for a moratorum on data centers within the city of St.

Louis and Mayor Cara Spencer did not want that.

And so, she said, "Okay, let's put in this temporary framework planning department.

you go look into this and come back with something that can be a permanent framework that will allow these things but will avoid what makes them terrible to have in your neighborhood.

And so they've come up with these rules.

I think the big takeaway is they're not going to allow any if these rules go forward that would be over 500,000 square feet.

So that would take away these massive developments that you're seeing proposed in places like Franklin County and in St.

Charles.

So that's a pretty big move right there.

But let's face it, city of St.

Louis doesn't have giant swaths of wide open acreage.

that was less going to be the problem in St.

Louis.

The big thing that it does is it says you have to put them if they're like a largecale data center, they have to go in this um this least restrictive industrial zoning.

And that basically means they'd be along the industrial part of the riverfront or this kind of corridor that sort of follows along I64 and other industrial parts of town.

You won't be able to see these in neighborhoods.

And even in that corridor, you'd have a 300 foot buffer.

So I think this is a this is a good starting point.

You won't see them next to houses.

That's great.

You won't see them overtake downtown.

>> But what's the impact?

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, Bill.

What What's the impact on the Mississippi?

I mean, we I know that there was so much concern about the Meramac and you know, when it came to the one in Franklin County, >> I will say they addressed this.

They said they are not going to allow the sort of uh data centers that use up a ton of water.

You can now mandate the technology is there where you can do like a closed loop system where they recycle their own water and they're saying that is also something that we would require.

You know, I can understand the idea of along the riverfront because we have all these old abandoned warehouses and industry that's shuttered along the riverfront, but the 64 corridor that's a little more problematic, I think.

I mean, I'm trying to envision since I take 64 home.

>> Sure.

>> I try to imagine where on along 64.

>> Well, I'll give you an example.

Right now the armory is >> that's the only place I can think of unless it's by the railroad tangles and I I don't see that and I'm with you Bill in that like okay let's from the let's take the city going west on 64/40 what's the first one you come to Brentwood technically uh no they ain't going to have it after that now you're starting to get into >> real estate >> real estate it's not going to happen until you were out by what the research park some past Chesterfield and we know you don't want one in Chesterfield Well, you know, it did seem like good news that Greater St.

Louis, Inc.

is taking or is going with Ameren >> and taking uh various civic officials >> on a tour to see data centers in other part of the country.

I thought to myself like they're educating themselves.

I know Ameren has a uh role in the game, but it's better to go see how these things are working in other parts of the country than just to say no.

Yeah.

>> I mean, saying Ameren has a role in the game.

Ameren wants this more than anything.

So, they're going to be smoozing people, whining, and dining them.

The idea of they're there while people are getting the tour.

Do you think they're getting the tour of the one that the neighbors hate?

>> They're just meetings, Sarah.

They're just meetings.

I'm sure there's just >> no but no Sarah brings up a good point and that is the officials should be going to the data centers which aren't working so well and see the worst practices in addition to the best practices so they know what to look for but I also think >> I hear you but when you you know like familiarization tours I don't even do those anymore but you know you get invited to go on a fab tour of the city they don't take you to the ghetto the first stop you know like your responsibility okay I I hear that but at the same time when that I first started reading that story, I thought they were going to say like, "Oh, so naturally they went to Silicon Valley or they went here."

No, they went someplace off in Nebraska.

So, I'm not Look, I think that's a good idea.

The gentleman from Madison County who said like all I hear is people don't want them and these are the reasons I felt obligated to at least go hear the other side.

What I want to know though, I want to know and this should be part of the regulations.

Okay, who is behind it?

What's the firm?

Is it Google?

Is it Facebook?

Is it somebody else?

None of this uh you know uh information that can't be shared with the public.

I also think we need more time than six days.

The the public hearing for this is in six days.

It's Tuesday.

>> I think that the public hearing will be 90% people saying no way, no how.

I already know.

I also want guarantees that our electric rates are not going to go up because of this artificial never.

And you can't get a guarantee like that.

I I mean I you know me I I wish we just still use typewriters.

I don't even like cell phones.

But this stuff is coming and we might as well go around and look at the country with when when they start getting into billion with be you know with billions with a B in times like this with distressed cities like this.

It's just too good to pass up.

It's coming.

And what is stunning to me, Sarah, is the fact that they were able to get all of their ducks in a row and organize a plan, a cohesive plan when you've got residents on the north side who are like living under tarps with snow.

It's just I I >> Very good point.

We're taking our eye off the prize.

We should be looking at tornado victims in North St.

Louis and not concentrating on data sets.

>> They have to do both.

That is the planning department.

We should do both forward or we're not going to have any development.

>> Tell me this.

Why does Massachusetts have fewer data centers than Missouri?

>> Because they can pick and choose.

>> It has more population and more tech.

Massachusetts can pick and choose what they want to do.

Missouri is not we ask why.

You ask why.

That's why >> you can't compare.

You can't I'm sorry, but you cannot compare a city like Boston to a city like St.

Louis.

>> You would think that Boston would need more of these, but no.

But they are basically saying like now look, we're not going to let them overrun the state or overrun the city.

But we have whatever.

So look, I understand why there's interest.

I don't think anyone >> is going to be built in the city of St.

Louis.

I think they're going to be all around us.

I think Metro East is probably going to be >> I think the riverfront, Wall Street, I think I think that's going to I bet you anything.

>> We already have 12.

They are smaller.

And I think we are going to get some more.

And I think, frankly, I think the mayor's office, they very much would like to see more development in the city.

And if they can find a way to do this that doesn't upset people residentially and doesn't make all the difference.

Wait, this plan just got introduced today and I guarantee you somebody is nitpicking that plan now and six days from now they're going to point out everything that's wrong with the plan.

I'm not saying it was not a good idea to do it, but now people got something to focus on, attack directly instead of him.

I >> I don't think 300 feet is enough.

I don't think it's enough buffer space.

And I hope the politicians enjoy voting for this because I think it might be the last vote they make >> as elected officials.

Bill, I want to go to you on uh a 7% pay raise approved for police officers and sergeants in the St.

Louis Metropolitan Police Department.

This by the new police board, but the mayor and others say, "Look, uh we don't know how we're going to pay for this.

So until we do, we're going to delay the pay raises for other workers in the city of St.

Louis.

How do you feel about this?

>> Well, I wish we had there was enough money to just pay everybody a whole bunch of money, but but there isn't.

But the police department, everyone always says we need more police.

You know, we we need 2,000 police.

We need and okay, you you have to pay for police and a 7% raise does not take the city police over above and beyond what the suburban cops are getting.

So I I think a 7% raise sounds like a good idea and I'm sorry and I wish that there was enough money that everybody could get a 7% raise.

>> So my raise All right.

So my raise as a sanitation worker tough.

you're out of luck.

And no, this state is saying like, okay, we're gonna give the police a 7% raise and the fire 17 and 7%, I'm sorry.

And the fire department because of whatever this law is or statute, they get uh 7% raise as well.

Oh, and by the way, you don't have the money to pay for it.

Well, we're the state and we're on this board.

So, la dah.

Once again, this this is ridiculous.

>> Okay.

Well, well, people shouldn't be saying we need more police then.

We want more police protection if you can't pay for it.

If we can't pay for it, we shouldn't do it.

>> It would be a beautiful kumbaya moment if we could provide these payraises for everybody across the board.

But the fact of the matter is that without a police force, you and the perception of high crime areas, whether it's downtown, whether it's the West End, wherever it is, all of those other jobs are going to be imperiled.

So >> So why don't you just give them 20% raise then?

>> Yeah.

I don't see many city residents going, "We need more police.

We need more police."

This is something imposed upon us by the state.

And I think what's disgusting here is the state did this without getting the budget first, the overall budget of the St.

Louis Police Department.

They're just like, "Yeah, we're going to give our guys what we want to give them."

Not thinking about the bigger picture.

The state at the same time, they could change this parody so that firefighters don't automatically get what police get.

But they're not interested in and I'm sure the mayor would not be interested.

The firefighters are a powerful political organization, but we sit around the table all the time and everybody agrees that crime is a huge problem in the city.

Something has to be done.

So say, "Okay, well, let's pay the police a little more so we can maybe even retain them."

And all of a sudden, well, >> you got to make sure it pencils out.

If the city ends up bankrupt, that is a huge problem for all of us.

>> And I work in the city, but I'm not going to n I'm not going to I was going to get a raise.

I'm not getting it.

Now I'm going to go look for a job someplace else.

So anybody civil service, anybody like that, you're basically telling them your job doesn't matter.

That's not fair.

>> Well, the only problem is triage situation.

>> They're they're raising the pay to 63,000.

But in Clayton, they start around 7475.

In Denver, Cincinnati, all the cities, they're starting in mid70s.

>> And in Fairfax County, somebody who does our job gets paid a lot more money.

We're here.

We have a >> try to fight to follow a budget and it's just been blown up because the state just decides for us.

If you don't have a safe St.

Louis city, if you don't reduce the homicides, if you don't enhance the public safety, businesses and residents are going to move out.

And what's going to happen?

The value of the properties will go down and that means the taxes go down.

>> Okay, that's fine.

That's fine.

Like I said, give them a 20% raise.

Nobody has the money.

So what?

Right.

>> I do agree the mechanism for funding them is not fair.

If the stateapp appointed police board wants these raises, then the state should have to pony up some of >> but they're not.

So that's why this is a bad idea.

You can champion the police all you want and we need police.

I'm not hating on the police, but the state should not be able to say like we're mandating that you give police a raise that you cannot pay for.

>> As the governor did tell uh Kelly and Hancock this week on KOX, all voting members of the police board are St.

Louis city residents.

>> Yeah, who cares?

They are not the representatives we voted for.

>> How many are from the north side?

Zero.

Are they being represented?

>> Are they being represented by car dealers and restaurant owners?

Come on, Charlie.

I mean, that >> that's a different argument.

And I I agree that I was disappointed in the composition of the police board.

I don't think the governor was very thoughtful on this, but that that's a different issue than whether you want to pay the cops almost.

You wanted businessmen.

He gave you businessmen.

>> Well, that's a little generic, Charlie.

I wanted businessmen, but I wanted a more thoughtful more representative.

>> Hey, Alvin.

Uh, you're the sports columnist or one of them at the St.

Louis American newspaper.

So, I'm sure you were very interested when you found that St.

Louis is actually going to have some soccer action.

Olympic soccer games are going to be played in the city of St.

Louis in 2028.

Very exciting.

Do you think this makes sprucing up downtown a little more urgent?

Oh, well, it's imperative.

And you know, going back to last summer when Guatemala played here against the men's team, game was sold out.

I mean, all who knew there were this many people from Guatemala that would be in St.

Louis.

They were driving in from the license place for Kentucky and Ohio and all this.

But anyway, it was a grand grand time.

This will play out like that.

Now, we don't I don't I don't think Germany will be playing here in the early rounds or anything like that, but it's a big deal.

And whatever we can do to make people who see St.

Louis for the first time feel as though we got a little something something going on other than some big old uh data center sticking out like a right more years.

Alvin Reid, >> four police officers being paid.

Now, where do you find the money?

We got to take care of the tornado people, but we got a year maybe to do that.

And then a year from now, maybe we start focusing the cash on how do we how do we really get downtown St.

Louis all the way to to West Part?

>> But what about the city workers, Alvin?

I mean, all of a sudden, you're I'm a sanitation worker and all of a sudden we're putting money in to make downtown.

>> Well, look, I mean, we we're talking about the Rams money here.

>> I mean, I I know.

I'm just being facicious.

No, I get what you're saying, but what but what I'm saying is is that if we decide that we are going to use our money for a specific purpose, that's one thing for the state to decide for us what we're going to use our money for.

That ain't good.

>> Well, I I you know, I think that this is I think this is very exciting.

I think we also have to remember that St.

Louis historically between Route 66, between the Arch, between the Cardinals, between, you know, even the Blues and that, you know, Stanley Cup run, which will not be duplicating itself this year, we think.

But, um, St.

Louis has a great profile around the world.

And so, we we are going to have to be ready.

But when I was, you know, counting, doing the math on my fingers and then thinking this is kind of like a two-week party, they're going to have to really jump in fast because if you ask for a global if you ask for a global audience, you're going to get a global audience.

And if we're not ready, it could >> Well, the day the day that they announced that Kansas City was going to host World Cup games, and I just from the people I know over there, >> a they had already started planning just with the hope of getting it and within 24 hours, they were putting the mechanisms into place to make sure this thing went right.

St.

Louis start uh you know, downtown certainly needs money in the long run, but when we're talking about panicking about, oh my god, they're coming.

They're coming to Downtown West.

Energizer Park is in this part of of downtown that is actually vibrant.

The receipts are way up.

The bars are popping.

I think this is going to be a great way to show off what's good in St.

Louis.

>> The St.

Louis American is like >> 300 yards from the pe people like St.

Louis when they come here.

>> Yeah.

But this isn't like a family picnic.

We can't wait.

We We You know what I'm saying?

We can't wait and hope that our fortunes change.

We We got to get going.

>> Yeah.

>> Wendy, let me ask you about um senior and senior groups in St.

Louisis County have asked for a property tax increase.

I think it's five cents per $100 of valuation on homes and businesses in order to raise money to provide health and nutrition benefits for senior citizens.

So groups like Lutheran Senior Services, Cardinal Ritter, Paracquad, they went in front of the county council, they said, "Put this on the November 3rd ballot.

Let's raise our taxes for seniors."

the same year that seniors swamped the county offices saying, "Hey, uh, we want to freeze our property taxes, and they did."

So, they got $30 million in freezes.

And so, Rockwoods is going to have four million fewer dollars for its schools.

Parkway 2.7 million fewer dollars.

Can you have it both?

Can seniors say, "Hey, freeze our property taxes.

Give us more money."

>> Well, I know that David Stokes from the, you know, the Show Me Institute said, "Absolutely not.

This is a non-starter."

I being a senior myself suddenly uh I I I feel like this is this is worthwhile um to have to have both of these things going for the seniors uh these these health programs these uh the transportation programs they are going to help these seniors live vital active lives keeping them perhaps in their homes before they become part of the state Medicaid situation and that's what you Nobody wants that.

So, I know I can tell by all of your sneakers.

>> Well, I've been a senior longer I've been a senior longer than you have, Wendy.

And and I don't think it's right.

I mean, I think that the people who need the most help right now are young people with families and they can't afford homes.

And I mean, of course, I like seniors.

Some of my best friends are seniors, Wendy.

But but it just seems like uh good grief.

You know, we we we ought to sit back and I I'm I'm sorry that anybody needs services, but I think the young people need them more than we do.

>> I was going to say you really almost convinced me.

I was like you were you great argument, Wendy, because you almost convinced me.

I'm just going to say I don't think you can kind of like decide pick and choose like who do we raise the tax for even through a vote and this would be one where I think up until the day we had this vote it would be real close narrow and everybody gets in that booth we don't get in a booth anymore and fills out the little square and it'll lose 6040.

I I just I think people don't want to tax themselves any higher for any any group of people or individuals.

Well, and I think this property tax freeze, I know that the ship has sailed on that, but it's just it's so bad what we are doing to our young people.

And I'm talking about people who are significantly younger than me.

Like, I'm in my middle age now.

We're doing okay.

But so much wealth is is tied up in older generations right now.

And the way that we are are what what we're doing policy-wise.

We've made college so unaffordable.

Housing is so unaffordable.

These young people are supposed to be like, you know, they can't even get started in life and we're putting all the tax.

I know your daughter is doing really well.

>> Yeah, I think one's getting a PhD, the other just got her masters in electrical engineering.

So, they need help.

I don't know.

Maybe they would take it if they can give it.

But I understand.

But at the same time, you know, there's some responsibility involved in that.

Hey, put yourself in a situation where you can like, you know, maybe start with a small home or condo.

It's harder.

It's harder, Ellen.

>> It's harder.

It was harder for us than it was for our parents.

Or no, it was harder for our parents than it was.

>> Well, it was it was easy for my generation.

Like, you could actually work your way through college if you went to a state school and then you you didn't need a big down payment.

Although I've only owned the one house in my life, but it's just tougher for kids.

I get I I get it, but I I don't know.

It's It's not tough for the Hoffman kids, >> part of the Hoffman family of businesses, which uh I think officially today, Bill, um the Hoffman's became the controlling interest partners in Lee Enterprises.

So, they're your boss right now and the bosses of people who work for 120 Lee newspapers.

And apparently, the St.

Louis Business Journal had a meeting today.

I think it was called Advanced St.

Louis.

David Hoffman, uh, who owns the Pittsburgh Penguins now and Oberw Weiss Dairy and now the Post Dispatch.

He said he thinks that the post is a little too too far to the left, so he's going to move it toward the center, going to increase the local coverage, and he'd like to buy the St.

Louis Cardinals.

What do you think?

>> Well, I have no idea about Mr.

Hoffman buying the St.

Louis Cardinals.

I I love the idea that he wants to increase coverage at the Post Dispatch.

that means hire more reporters, you know, and I hear from many people that, you know, you guys are bunch of lefties, you know, and and I I don't think so.

And I think our editorial page under Kevin McDermott has been very centrist.

Yeah.

>> And and I think this is a tough time to expect a newspaper to suddenly become uh more conservative in the Trump era.

I mean, I think that newspapers have to fight against Trump, and it's difficult when the Republican party has just given in completely to to Trump.

It's hard for a boss to come in and say, I want you guys to be more centrist.

Go, well, you know, a lot of these Republicans won't even talk to us.

>> And it didn't used to be that way.

>> So, but but I glad that Mr.

Hoffman wants to expand coverage, and I wish him the best.

I think the Washington Post is is a great example of exactly what Bill's talking about.

You know, Jeff Bezos tried to say, "Okay, we're going to turn this thing to the right.

People who were conservative did not want to buy a subscription to that newspaper."

I find it hard to believe that the Post Dispatch's path to further profitability is by saying, "Oh, there's going to be a lot of conservatives who just can't wait to buy a subscription to this this newspaper."

I don't see that happening.

I think they will end up alienating their >> It wouldn't hurt to have a true >> died in the wool conservative columnist.

I We have you.

We have uh Aisha Sultan, Tony Messenger.

Why not, you know, have a have a local conservative.

That's fine and dandy.

You know, I just I thought his talking point sound like they came out of the comments section of the Post Dispatch.

And I Okay.

What?

The Post is not covering international stories.

The Post is not going around the It carries them though.

What I'm saying is it's it's chalk full of local news.

Is he going to change the deadlines?

That's what he needs to, you know.

>> Well, well, that sounds that sounds like that might happen.

And one thing the Post Dispatch needs to do is sports needs to be able to have tonight's game and tomorrow's paper.

And Lynn Schmidt would would argue that she's not a conservative.

>> And are we still printing in Colombia?

>> Um, no.

They're going to print in Washington.

>> Okay.

>> And and that that's great.

That's good.

Do don't we think that overall this developer like many others just loves getting his name out there and he'll say anything he you know that's what developers I I agree I agree I'm going to buy the Cardinals.

>> There's a Trumpian aspect to this guy.

I mean don't and I you know truly he does like having his name bold >> and he said that he was going to turn Augusta into the Napa Valley Midwest and he did not.

Well maybe that'll still happen.

>> Maybe it will.

I don't have any don't want to step on any toes there.

>> No.

>> Well, and he's the guy that, you know, wanted a 12hole golf course.

I mean, that that still, you know, makes me wonder, but I wish him well and and he is money and and this is a great thing to spend your money on.

>> All right, Bill, thank you very much and thank you.

Uh, let's find out what people had to say >> about last week's program, shall we?

I had a chuckle listening to the debate about inmates having to shovel snow at below zero temps.

I shoveled my 100 foot long driveway and backyard and my deck in three degrees with the wind blowing.

Did I mention I'll be 81 next month?

That from Mario Vitali of St.

John.

Bev White of Fenton wrote, "Low-income residents of Missouri would get minimal, if any, income tax relief by the governor's tax plan, but would be slammed by an increase in sales tax."

I feel fairly certain that if Charlie said grass is green, Joe would argue against it.

Saying that the US attorney from Missouri shouldn't dishonor the state by participating the 2020 election investigation in Georgia seems to go without saying.

That from Anne Erenss of St.

Anne.

Well, it is at Donnybrook.

Anne, you can write us care of Nine PBS 3655 Olive Street 63108.

We love those emails.

Donnybrook@ninepbs.org.

On social media, use donnybrookst.

Call the nline at 314-51294.

And don't forget to listen to us wherever you are on your favorite podcast source.

We have the Nine PBS YouTube show.

We call it Last Call.

and we're going to be talking about what seems to be a lot of people leaving the Webster Grove City Hall.

Sports betting maybe not living up to expectations and then the Lions Club moving to St.

Peters from St.

Charles.

That's this week on our YouTube program.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We'll see you next week at this time.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.