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Thank you so much for joining us.

Wow what a week this was and we're gonna discuss it but first let's meet the panelists starting with the media veteran who's been gone too long.

Welcome back Wendy Weise.

From the Post-Dispatch one of our founders Mr.

Bill McClellan.

Also from the Post and stltoday.com political columnist Joe Holleman and from your St.

Louis American as always we welcome Alvin Reid.

Well before we jump into the topics do want to thank a local artist by the name of Elzara Yusufova who came to this country four years ago from Ukraine and today her artwork adorns our set here at 9PBS.

So thank you so much Elzara and folks if you want to learn more just go to Elzara sam.com I think that's right.

Thank you so much.

What else do we need?

Oh my goodness we are among greatness because Brooke Butler and Anne-Marie Berger and Aaron Langsdorf from our stat, from our staff all won Emmys and they're on the shelves right now so Anne-Marie congratulations.

And a belated happy birthday to this fella.

Another turn around the sun.

Yeah we made it we made it.

Yeah I ate them on the way though.

They were good.

Hey Joe I want to ask you about what happened this past week.

It really was quite a week for the midterm elections among other things.

Relative unknown Fred Wellman who's a consultant a podcaster hasn't had any elective office positions in the greater St.

Louis area.

I don't I think this was his first win.

He defeated Ann Wagner who has had the job for 14 years and you know Donnie Brooks been on the air for 40 years.

Of those 40 as you point out this week only two years have belonged to a democrat in the second congressional district that was Joan Kelly Horne 30 some years ago.

So it's very strange for Fred Wellman to win.

How did he do it?

Well he did it because every time people talk about there's going to be a blue wave or there's going to be a red wave and it's never a wave it's always kind of a swell.

This was a tsunami which I'll give credit to Anita Mannion a professor at the University of Missouri-St.

Louis who said if Ann Wagner loses it won't be a blue wave it'll be a blue tsunami and that's we'll take and I think that's what happened here.

Ann Wagner had been in there Fred Wellman worked hard was out everywhere you know shaking hands kissing babies the old old school way of campaigning and I think a combination of factors but mainly the blue wave or tsunami of democrat turnout is what took Fred Wellman to this seat.

You know I think another thing is Ann Wagner is just not a retail campaigner.

You know I ran into Francis Slate right after he left office and said hey you know how's civilian life?

He said well I have my nights back because when you're mayor there's something every night that you could should do whether it's a neighborhood organization or a church having a bazaar or a ward organization he said something that you should do all the time and I think that's true for all politicians including congressmen and Ann Wagner just didn't do that sort of stuff and when you're out there talking to people you get a reservoir of goodwill that can be a lifeboat when the tsunami comes but you know I think Ann figuring that she was in a safe district there was no need to do it and maybe didn't like doing it you know I mean if I wouldn't want to be a politician because I wouldn't want to do that stuff but I think that she just didn't have that reservoir of goodwill when the tsunami came and boom.

Well I think if you looked at her her ads you know the she had the attack ads with Wellman got I guess the last laugh on the flaming liberal during his you know victory speech but if you looked at her ads I mean they were they were often just still photos of her with seniors or kids whatever and her hair was perfect and her makeup was perfect and you just it just looks staged and you got the feeling that she really didn't do this and it just kind of was telltale that she just was not out amongst the people.

Well and what's what's really fascinating I think when you talk about somebody like Ann Wagner who I think we would all have said she is entrenched and when we were receiving these the the poll numbers the internal poll numbers from Fred Wellman's camp it's like they wouldn't do that unless they felt pretty confident and Wellman made that point in your article Joe you know he said we had the numbers we knew that things were looking good.

Ron DeSantis said that they they believed that if you focused on transgender issues that and and anything but economic issues that that was a telltale sign that you were completely disconnected from your your constituency.

Well I don't know I I you know I remember when uh congress then congresswoman Cori Bush she was out a lot and then she lost her a chance to get re -elected.

I think this year after the last two years of the second uh Trump presidency people just didn't disfavor the president they detested him and they wanted to disinfect the country by getting rid of anyone with a connection to Donald Trump.

But I I think that the hate for the president is extremely strong.

No I agree with that.

People if anybody had a connection to Trump that person was.

I don't think it's that deep.

I don't think it's I I think it's crazy.

I think it's Republican.

I agree with you but I don't think that was enough to defeat and Wagner.

Wagner played a role in her own defeat and the telltale was when it was announced that Anne Wagner would not have a watch party at all and I'm thinking like I mean that's just that's well you but that was after she knew that she was no that's what I'm saying now we were within three four days and when that you know it was kind of like man maybe there is.

I just I think she would like to get out and meet people don't forget she was the chairman of the state GOP.

She was the chair of George W. Bush's campaign.

That was then that was then things change circumstances change.

I think she went into Washington thinking I am in a safe seat so I don't have to go out and hold town hall meetings and I think ultimately that was there were a lot of politicians Wendy who went out to town hall meetings who lost on Tuesday.

I'm not saying that was the only reason that she lost but this was a contributing factor.

All of it plays right.

I think I and I think some of the points and and I get the point about Donald Trump and I think some of that I gotta say is a little bit the derangement syndrome.

Which is real.

Well it is real.

It doesn't mean it's valid it just means it's real.

People with derangement syndrome have the right to vote.

Well but the thing is is that people didn't like Donald Trump.

If gas was $2.49 a gallon this would not have happened.

Not sure.

Because I think at the end of the day the the original observation of politics is still the most accurate.

People vote their pocketbook and the economy was what everybody liked.

So you pay who's in the office.

It's the money.

But they were paid.

Typically it is and I remember the Clinton days it's the economy stupid and all that.

Yeah.

But this president has been so unusual with the way he comports himself with foreign leaders with Americans with the press.

We've never seen anything like it.

But he did that his first term in and he won again.

He won again.

He did a novelty.

Yes he did.

The thing about novelties is they wear off fast.

Excellent point.

They wear off fast.

Excellent point.

And he wasn't OK.

People vote their pocketbook.

OK.

So let me go to you Alvin.

What about Fred Willman.

What does he have to do to get reelected and not be the next Joan Kelly Horne who had one term in the second congressional district.

Well one thing I would go out to Franklin County and some of the districts out there and I would have I hate data center rallies even if they don't have a plan to build it.

Now I think he needs to be himself.

Fred Wilman's message if he slightly changed it and said he was a Republican he could have probably be down Wagner in the primary.

The guys.

He's a genuine guy.

OK.

A lot of y'all.

He let profanity go when discussing the pride in his military career.

And I think that helped him.

And Joe and your story not you.

Not what's you but the people talking.

It almost seemed like you know they were saying like he should apologize for beating and Wagner in that election and he really got no chance.

And if I was him he said look you told me I had no chance the first time and now two hours after I got to you know let me go tell me I got no chance two years.

Alvin it's a whole different story as you know in the presidential election.

Do you know that Fred Willman actually got fewer votes than Ray Hartman did two years ago.

And that's because more and more people vote in a presidential.

I understand that.

But following up on what you were just saying the president that's leaving is leaving behind a lot of people.

They're going to be running for president and you could tag them immediately say like that's one of Trump's boys or one of Trump's ladies.

And thus it will still play no years from now.

Democrats can't go against data centers because unions love data centers.

And one of my predictions is Charlie.

We're going to see a lot more data centers.

I was joking when I know I think it's a good point though.

I was kind of high.

I think data centers are going to be sprouting all over because the unions have supported the Democrats and the Democrats are just like I think there's a lot of Democrats who don't like data centers.

I mean I don't think that I think that's an issue that has a little to everybody.

Yeah that's going to be seen in the city of St.

Louis and its new data center.

Well I think according to The New York Times says that data centers are the only truly bipartisan issue in the United States.

Yeah that both parties have the similar feeling toward data centers.

That is true.

So I believe if it comes to a common ground it's of opposition to data center.

Well what explains St.

Louis?

There's not a Republican in the city of St.

Louis and it's the only community with a major data center.

Because they were voting their pocketbook.

There's money there Charlie.

And desperate.

There's money there.

There's money everywhere for data centers.

Bergeson, Warrington, everywhere.

And so there's lots of money.

And so you want your leaders to pass up the money.

Did I just say that?

I don't know.

I said that Democrats will cower to the unions who demand the data centers in exchange for political.

I don't I don't see a cowering to it at all.

No me either.

I don't see a cowering.

I think that's an overstatement.

Once again I was only joking about today.

I think the thing is you know and I wrote this story and got criticism from readers saying he just got elected how you do it.

I think it's a fact he's in a Republican district.

Right.

Now because it switched for this election does not make it a Democratic district.

And as one of the people in my story pointed out he's got to hit the ground running.

He's got to get some things that those people want.

Yeah.

So you can't be that flaming liberal.

You can't you keep that position and try to win that district again.

And I don't think that that he is a flaming liberal.

No.

I think we don't know yet.

I think he's smart enough.

He calls that he hasn't had a day in office yet.

We'll find out what he is.

Let's see what happens in two years.

The Republican party is looking right now.

Hold your thoughts because we're getting a call for a timeout.

We want to invite you to join us on the road.

That's right.

In 2027 Donnie Brooke is going on the road and you can join us.

Here's how.

And we hope you join us in 2027 on the road.

Well lots to talk about after last Tuesday.

Wendy I was kind of surprised that even though Democrats stormed the polls and were very successful around the country but certainly here in St.

Louis City, St.

Louis County, St.

Charles County, throughout the state of Missouri, some ballot measures which would have raised taxes like Prop S in the county which was a property tax increase for seniors that failed in the city.

Prop B which would have funded daycare failed.

That was a sales tax increase and don't forget last August Prop U which was the internet tax for St.

Louis County that failed too.

What gives?

I thought the people who lean to the left generally like tax increases.

I looked into it because I had a suspicion because what we have all heard about for the past 15-20 years is 30 years is declining church attendance and they actually are tying it to the fact that fewer and fewer from each generation are regularly attending church because that's where we all learned you know most of us learned that first lesson about putting a dollar in the plate or the basket or what have you and so there is a there is a sense that that is having an impact.

I also believe that younger voters are going to be much much harder to reach.

I think that they are niche voters.

I think the niche voters.

I think that that herd mentality where the left always did this or the right always did this.

I just don't think it's I don't think it's going to happen that way anymore because I believe it was North Carolina where they had a you know there was another part of the blue tsunami in terms of state offices statewide offices but they were still passing a photo ID you know a voter ID bills and proposals and I just I think they're going to be much much tougher to reach.

I just think both in the city and in the county on the proposals I just people I don't think it was about daycare centers.

I don't think it was about senior centers.

I think it was about I trust these people with my money.

And I think that's a huge part of it.

I just these are both great things but the money that I vote for them to go there it won't go there so I'm not voting for it.

I think they're much more and I think I do think younger voters are much more pragmatic than they used to be.

The sales tax is already outrageous in this region.

It's 10, 11, 12 percent.

In the city it would probably be pushing 12 percent some if that had passed and that's a lot.

I mean that's just too much.

I also think in the county on the seniors there's a lot of young people who resent seniors and the property tax freeze they resented that and the idea that they're now going to raise their person you know the sales tax to help seniors and these young people can't afford to buy homes.

That's a hard shove to make.

Plus the seniors were defined as those 60 and over.

60 and over.

It was like 85 and over.

That's different.

Okay maybe.

Well I think if you're 30, 35, 40 and you're trying to buy a house and trying to make payments on this and that and you see the seniors getting the property tax freeze and now we're going to have a sales tax increase to help the seniors stay in the homes.

I think you're going to say no.

Now that was a proposed property tax increase in the county but I see your point.

Yeah you know if it's also too if we're talking about my belief that the economy was the major driver of what happened in this election.

This is a terrible time then to ask for a tax increase when people are voting out everybody because they feel their money's in peril.

Me personally I'm always glad to see a tax increase get defeated because I believe a lot of folks like I do not believe that the government either government run by either party has done a very good job of taking care of the money I've already given.

Very true.

I think there's certain services that we need and that you know if there's a little waste thrown in there that's something you have to live with.

So I'm not in favor of cutting all taxes.

Okay let's let's move on guys to the next topic and it was a proposition regarding abortion amendment three.

Just a little bit of background in 2022 Roe versus Wade was the was overturned by the supreme court.

Immediately the state of Missouri decided to ban almost all abortions signed by the attorney general then Eric Schmidt.

Then two years later at the polls guess what the voters in 2024 decided to overturn that ban.

It went back on the ballot and guess what yesterday or rather on Tuesday it looks as though abortion will be legal still in the state of Missouri.

Bill will the folks who are so-called pro-life going to wave the white flag and just move on?

Well no but first of all asking me like I might know I'm the one who sat here a couple weeks ago and said that the ban would pass.

You know I thought that hey it was so close when it was just abortion and now that the pro-life people have tried to make it seem like it's also about gender bending and children.

I thought this thing would go down and instead it passed with much stronger numbers than it passed two years ago.

So I'm not much of an authority on this issue at all but I think pretty clearly the pro-life people are not thrown in the white flag.

We've had stories on that already with them talking about how they're going to try to come back again.

Well think of how long it took for Dobbs.

I mean it was 40 you know it took a very long time and I think the pro-life movement is as patient as they've ever been and there is no way that they are going to give up.

I think go ahead.

I think both sides feel it's a moral issue and so neither side would give up whichever one prevails the other side will come back.

I think the vote of it going so bad I believe that Missouri is last time it was 51.6 percent okayed abortions.

I think that's about what the state is.

I think this was also more of a case of we just don't like the legislature overturning what we already did.

That's exactly.

I don't think the position of the whole state of Missouri has changed much on abortion so if you wanted to say it's 52 .48 I believe that's it but it was like you know what we already decided this question and you guys are showing it down there.

You know I like to think you're right.

I didn't think that all the voters would be sophisticated enough.

I mean when I tried to read the thing I couldn't make sense of it and I thought there's a lot of voters who aren't going to really quite understand what this is and they're here to vote on other issues but the voters seemed a lot more sophisticated than I suspect.

Well whoever came up with yes on six and the rest are tricks yeah that was effective because you may not have really understood but you knew that wait I get it okay or and I'm not saying how to vote and then also I think there's a there's a percentage of people that made the difference in this race that they don't look at it as like a moral issue they look at it as a it's really none of your business issue and I you know I'll answer to whatever power there is with my decision but for the most part I just think it's just a you should not be able to tell me what I'm going to do with my family.

Bill let me go to you on the next one this was amendment number six which was a ballot measure and it basically it basically got approved and now if there's a citizen-led initiative that's passed at the ballot box it can't be overturned by the General Assembly as the General Assembly did with puppy mills, Medicaid expansion, minimum wage unless there is an 80 percent approval in both chambers of the General Assembly and then if it goes to the ballot box and if the voters approve it don't you think that's kind of a too too tall a hill to climb?

No I think that the legislature brought this on itself by every time that people pass something and the legislature gets pressure from special interests which aren't necessarily bad things like small businesses or whoever the legislature says okay we're going to overrule the will of the people and it's happened again and again and again as you say and the people just said we don't want this if we make a decision we want you to honor it and now you know that they can still go to a referendum yeah a referendum so I don't think that this is like oh we've tied ourselves in a straitjacket I think people are just saying we're sick of what the legislature's doing.

But what if there's a mistake or if something needs to be corrected or if that matter what if the population of the state changes dramatically as it does every 25 or 50 years should the people in 25 years be beholden to the wishes of the people who voted well yes yes they should if you if you move to the United States now should you have to live with the U.S.

Constitution but the Constitution can change don't forget it does and there's a process for that there's a process and I think what is in Missouri has a process and I think what this is is these were really not about what do people think about sick leave or what do people think about abortion it was about us voting and then the legislature turning around and canceling us right but sometimes this was about sometimes these things have to be edited one example I would point out is the sports gambling tax which is 10 percent it's about 20 percent lower than the average New York State's is 51 percent now under this rule and by the way this applies to all ballot measures going back to 2010 right uh if the courts approve this um I just think that's too that's too difficult no one ever gets 80 percent approval but they had to be tamped down in Jefferson City and if you get 60 percent of the vote in anything that means that Republicans Democrats liberals and conservatives all like there were enough people that said like like Joe said uh-uh this is not working and we have to take a stand against it and I think they're willing to live with that 80 percent oh we got the comma wrong as opposed to puppy mills and right and all this other stuff and I that's I think that's once again yes people are it was an issue but at the same time it was now we're sick of this it can work both ways there could be a measure from a right-wing group out of Texas let's just say as an example Texas is a blue state but uh let's say they fund something that's misleading and that's put on the August ballot with no one votes and it gets through uh guess what it can't be but Charlie you just said that like so no one votes so that's that's the fault of the people that didn't vote that's not the fault of whatever the issue because they're in Saugatuck Michigan in uh August that's why they're not voting that okay that's not even a point okay that's not even a point you write a political column for the postman have you ever heard of any general assembly or legislature in America that has to reach an 80 vote to pass anything no I haven't either it's unprecedented and I think the message to be seen here Charlie is is quit messing with things that we've already already approved or defeated leave us alone or change the whole referendum process but we passed this so let it go this was a rebuke of the legislature we're getting the time out I'm so sorry to cut you off Joe sure you but we want to invite everyone to join us for Donnybrook on the road watch this thanks for joining us and we look forward to seeing you on the road in 2027 Joe we've been talking about this leftward shift in Missouri this past week but it wasn't just this past week don't forget in August the two ballot measures that were preferred by the Republicans went down in flames with 80 percent as it turns out in both cases of the voters now we're not a seven to one state we're a five to three five Republicans three Democrats that makes us a purple state right for now I mean right at this minute you could argue that there's a purple tinge well that was I mean you're partially right no further questions yeah but no I I think we're still you know and and I get it that it was a good night for Democrats in Missouri but the Republicans still control the state house and the state senate they still have all the offices I mean so this idea I mean it's like let's tamper it down a bit as all of a sudden as we flipped everything Democrats had a fabulous night in a red state so if you want to say right now there's a slight purple glow sure I mean it's still a red state let's not kid ourselves I think that the what we'll see in the next two years is who lines up maybe to take on Kehoe and what happens to the that not the auditor the secretary of state you know they're they're the Republicans are going to have to come up with some some answers and deal with their own problems but it's still a red state but the inroads that were made and it is important to take away that super majority I think because now if you're on in a in a district especially in the house that it's up for grabs it's not just you're going to whoever the Republican is whoever the Democrat is are going to for sure win if you're in one of those districts you know you gotta you gotta watch where you step now and before Tuesday I think you could have just played it I'll get enough votes and I'll win and in 28 all of the statewide races will have a Republican incumbent and so we'll see if the Democrats can overcome that kind of a hurdle well I think the chances look pretty good right now they look better than they did 48 hours ago they look better than they did but don't forget in 1994 Joe you you know this you're the political columnist uh the Republicans took over the house for the first time since 1952 and they flipped the house in the senate for the first time since 1946 and everyone thought okay Clinton is on the way out and guess what the draft dodging pot smoker pot smoker was re-elected over a war hero wasn't that the new wasn't that the contract with America yeah it was he wasn't a pot smoker he couldn't inhale in my life the Republican party has been dead three times and the Democratic party has been dead three times so they keep resurrecting that's right that's true Arthur Schlesinger cycles of American history when they want to ask you about Jake Zimmerman he was elected over Dennis Hancock as the new county executive for St.

Louis County do you send congratulations or do you say condolences because he's facing a 53 million dollar budget deficit both both but I think that he you know I think his his political ads which turned off a lot of people notwithstanding I think that he is smart enough he certainly has watched what has unfolded uh between the county council and his predecessor and I think that he's going to have to go in there and just immediately make relationships and and build bridges and communicate regularly and make sure that they are a more cohesive body and I think that he you know he he sold himself as somebody who loves this kind of stuff so he should be in his element and you know Sarah Fenske said what a couple of eight eight weeks ago you know she said this is going to be an enormous challenge for the winner you mentioned that you mentioned the tech ads on Brian uh Williams yeah look he didn't burn the bridge with me he blew it up you blew it I'm done with him I I just I left it blank right okay and I also voted for uh one uh Libertarian uh but I left it blank and I mean I think a lot of maybe not a lot of Democrats voted for Hancock couldn't go that far but like I said he did not get my vote and he does not have my trust good luck with you well I uh didn't vote for him either because of those ads but I I'm wishing him well and I think like Wendy says he's got to do something about the budget and I think he has to do it quickly you know a week ago I used a Mexican phrase I was proud of myself and it's the same thing to the bad step make haste yeah I mean you this is you got to do right away you can't kick the can down the road anymore so what do you do uh do you close more pools or do you roll up the property tax which hasn't been rolled up well he announces that we've got to uh get that budget straight right now yeah but getting the budget what are you going to do I mean uh well that's his job that's his job well it like he's not writing my college I'm not an oracle I don't know what I don't know what he's gonna do well I think he's gonna have to raise the property tax well no the people will have to okay it raised in the property yeah I understand well actually the county can do it because it hasn't rolled up it it's under uh the level right under the level and he doesn't want to guess or get re-elected okay how much time do we have to go do we have time to talk about mayor spencer okay let's talk about mayor spencer I'm going to go to you elvin on this one as it was announced by senator eric schmidt st louis is one of four cities that's going to divide a 300 million dollar federal grant not bad right okay but the mayor has some problems with it because on the application chris saraceno the chairman of the board of commissioners board of police commissioners signed his name where the mayor's supposed to sign and she feels that that's wrong and that she was left out of the dark right well that is wrong okay left in the dark and it's it's the and it's the same stuff with this state appointed board it's kind of a foul thing to do now I don't want to give the money back but also I keep hearing this this this st louis is going to get a chunk of this money and like what is a chunk of this money and where is this money going to go and part of it is like to like homeless programs or whatever oh yeah right all right I got some problems with it but once again I'm free money let's take it but we'll see all right well and I think that's where I love it is is everybody everybody's talking about oh this is terrible terrible terrible but of course I haven't heard anybody from the city say let's give the money back I think that the mayor completely played this wrong is that I'm mad that we're going to get it's a 300 million dollar pot and there's four cities so the reason we're here in 75 million there's cities about our size roughly that's 75 million per will it be a little more will it be a little less who knows but the idea is what you do if you are the mayor of the city is you congratulate the state board for getting that money because it helps your police department you don't have to love them you don't have to put out a parade for them but to say that you're basically opposed to getting 75 million dollars of money that you made clear you didn't even want to apply for no she never said yes she did she said the application was done wrong and possibly illegally tracy said it was clear that the city was not going to go forward with it so the state said but the mayor never said who cares what the chief said he's a lackey for the board and the state told him you don't need the mayor because here's the problem no kidding the mayor hasn't realized that the mayor's office is not in charge of the police department anymore now whether you like that or not she knows that's one thing but she wants to oppose it purely on political grounds this is a political fight i think you have to put it in context though joe with the disrespect that the police board has shown to the mayor and you know when when chris seracino starts signing where the mayor was supposed to sign well uh you know you really weren't elected chris i mean i i think the mayor has grounds to say this is a problem we want the but i don't like the way this is being handled oh okay you're going to argue about the process but yeah if you really have a problem give the money back oh no no nobody wants to give the money back all right so okay you want it both ways but we you want the money and you want to complain about i i personally want all right i want two grown-ups i want chris seracino robert tracy to sit down with kara spencer and say let's stop this scorched earth because it looks it looks bad for everybody in the city well because of what happened tuesday in the state that's closer to happening yes keo's gotta watch his back right now all right and he might say like man this board is another thing they're gonna throw in my face when i run from well but at some point the mayor has to realize she does not control the police department we're gonna have to cut it off right there and go tell you how you can write your comments about the program you just saw and that is by writing to nine pbs 3655 olive street st louis missouri 63108 don't forget those emails donniebrook at nine pbs.org on social media use hashtag donniebrook stl listen to us on your favorite podcast source wherever that might happen to be and don't forget we have a great program it's called last call it's on the donnybrook youtube channel and this week among other topics will Josh Hawley run in 2028 and if so what's he gotta do so those are among our topics we hope you join us for that and we also hope you join us on the road so have a great evening but don't go away we'll tell you how you can join us on the road in 2027 right around the corner.

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