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Hey thank you so much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

We've got a secret about Wendy's past which we will reveal very shortly but first let's meet these panelists starting with Wendy Weise the media veteran.

With the secret.

Bill no secrets McClellan from the Post-Dispatch.

Joe Holleman also from the Post and from the St.

Louis American we welcome Alvin Reid.

Well Wendy I thought this was most interesting in the pre-show discussion when we were talking about Dr.

Sam Page who's trying to get county money for the apartments at Lucas and Hunt which are filled with mold and raw sewage and the ceilings are falling down.

It's called the Northern Village and he wants money so that he can move those tenants out and at the same time pay for their first month and last month's rents wherever they move to.

Well the County Council does not want to do it saying that the county doesn't have money but you actually lived in the Northern Village apartments back in the day.

I did back in 1962 before my parents moved us into Carrollton before I remember when my father told me that I just thought that was really I thought that was so cool and they had very they had very fond memories so it is heartbreaking to see what has happened to it and anybody who remembers Manhasset Village in Richmond Heights I always presumed that they were sort of sister developments because the architecture was almost identical the garden little you know the little garden apartments with the same kind of windows but anyway it is heartbreaking it is in my opinion it is criminal I think that they have to I don't know how they do this kind of thing I don't understand how developers are able to be criminally negligent when it comes to human beings who are paying rent I will never understand that I cannot understand even though I know that their hearts are obviously in the right place they know that this is a disaster for these people but for Shalonda Webb to or whomever you know suggested that we put it on FEMA FEMA is already in you know they're they're in over their heads with what's going on in North City if there's still even they're you know if they're still there should the county pay for the moving expenses and the rent for these beleaguered tenants I think they should do all that they can I think for Shalonda Webb and I don't mean to be picking on her of course but to propose or to at least even bring up into discussion the 3.2 million dollars for the urban roadside stand at the at the same meeting that they're talking about human lives in the balance let's get the people safe and then think about their vegetable gardens well I think that if you maybe not do all of it maybe some of it I think maybe you could move the people I think not that a moving expenses is that much but you know we've used a large truck because I've been moved you know like you're not the only person on like a large truck there's several families so you could basically if they were moving off to a new complex you could probably do it in a couple lows big 16-wheel truck wise I think you could work it out as for paying the rent no I I think that's a little bit excessive and I do want to share real quick Wendy that in 2015 I think Bryson was a about to be a junior and we started we went to go look at the University of Illinois in Champaign so I took my girls to Danville to show the places that mom and dad lived right after we got married and they were all just sinister just like yeah you live there you've been together a long time to no longer live the county taxpayers pay no I don't think the county has the money now and if you don't have the money I mean it's kind of the County Council the hearts in the right place to say we're gonna move everybody take care of this but there's no money there I mean all you can do is try to get some not-for-profit some charitable and try to marshal them and get help but there's you can't be the cavalry riding in but help but think about this if the county has a million residents men women children right and it's a $450,000 that's 45 cents per person right I just I agree with bill I don't think you can go down that road and say that because this building now should the county have done a better job of enforcing codes and of you absolutely but if you're gonna give first month last month to everybody in this apartment complex what you've done now is set a precedent how do you turn the next one down and then how do you turn the next one down well and as much as you can sympathize with where they're at you have this never -ending of well this place is substandard this place needs to be condemned well you pay those other guys that same amount you know why I think the county I think the county failed to inspect or something this apartment complex Northern Village is not paying its MSD bill its spire bill or its water bill and why didn't the county and well we'll shut it down years ago what Wendy's right I mean there's the the county should be suing these people in Florida dragging them out of their office now I've never been a landlord I will tell you this that these things that landlords do and they'll tell you that people don't pay rent we got all this overhead and blah blah blah but that whole legal thing about suing your landlord or then the landlord trying to throw somebody else out because they haven't paid their rent it's like a two-year process yes it is I'm not using the county but well it's a yeah I think the state of Missouri should look at these out-of-state LLC's which are buying up a lot of these apartments and not doing a great job of managing them frankly hey Joe we're gonna go to you on our next topic a Metro student and you know Metro is one of the top high schools in the state year after year with the best test scores well this Metro student shared the following word via snapchat a snapchat to a colleague a female colleague trade question mark I didn't know what that meant but your newspaper explained that that is an invitation to some sort of sexual activity okay fine he gets suspended by the school for ten days outside of class he then sues in federal court saying hey he's gonna lose important instruction and it's going to affect his future do you think he has a case yes no maybe I mean no and why I say that I'm interested in this case because I think he could have I also think he could not I just have a ton of questions yeah okay I have one question that comes in as I understand your activity inside a school building the school has direct control over how you behave this happened outside of school does it have control of what you say or do does your school have control of what I do at seven o'clock at night sitting at home can the school take disciplinary action to me on something I did away from the school I think it's an interesting question so I applaud the lawsuit not because I think somebody was right or somebody was wrong and maybe he shouldn't have been doing it maybe he should treat people with more respect but I would like to see a court come in and say you can't police your students 24 hours a day but well you know it's all context too I mean we don't understand if that young man had a relationship of sorts with this girl or if he was just attracted to her if she was being bullied in school according to the story once he sent out his message he then blocked her and killed his app or whatever so clearly he had second thoughts and thought he'd done the wrong thing but not knowing their relationship in the context it's hard to say I don't think there should be any context I think how you behave with someone you go to school with and you're going to be within the same building then even though we don't watch over you 24 hours it's just like if you threaten the student why you weren't in school if you're just gonna like say something that is out of line to a young lady even though it's out of school on their own time and the school doesn't like it I think they have every right to suspend you well and I'd like to hear a judge's opinion of that because I think there's another argument to that if I'm let's say playing basketball or football on a weekend and I get into a fight with somebody can they suspend me for fighting well yes well I know that for a fact once you've given Sharon Tyus a pass a couple of weeks ago on this program for you want to put a bullet well what I'm saying is all he said was trade well she died in high school okay you don't want any plans well I'm just saying that if a school or a school district said we're not having it then we got it back that school once upon a time we had these conversations around this table and it was almost unanimous that these people would have these kids would have to be disciplined but I think that seriously that social media has changed that completely I mean I think it's changed the argument I think you bring up a really good point social media has changed things but the Supreme Court has looked at this and has said that the kids do have freedom of speech outside of school and even if the language does not disrupt the school then it's protected I don't think you know it's really you can't smoke cigarettes in a school does that mean you can't smoke them outside can they suspend you for having a cigarette on a weekend and I think that's the question that needs to be answered is where does the reach and power of a school district reach into somebody's private has to do with it with the girl is like if she was being bullied if this is part of a pattern then it's a totally different thing right as you know maybe like I said maybe he was just attracted to her and send her a message but I think the fact that he deleted his files already covered his tracks like he said he knew he was out of line and if he gets punished for me I'm not saying he was in line I've got to make that I want to make that crystal clear I'm not saying he was in line I'm saying is when does the school districts power over what you do begin and end okay what I'm saying and it could go to court he could win I'm not saying that I'm saying I support support the school district or the school in this measure because this is where a line need be drawn hey okay bill I want to ask you about some other rights that might be a bridge you've been to the st.

Genevieve detention center in st.

Genevieve County correct yes I am it's the jail that's where ice has been sending some immigrant detainees at least for a period of time well the Roman Catholic Archdiocese in st.

Louis is now suing the detention center and I think ice saying that the Roman Catholic priests who are trying to visit these detainees are are unable to conduct mass to deliver communion to anoint the sick or hear confessions and so they've they've also sued in federal court whose side do you happen to fall on in this case the detention center which says hey the policy has been in place for 20 where 20 years where you've been mr.

archbishop well I have a bias against the ice and what they're doing and I think that a lot of these we always talk about like city jail well some of these people aren't even convicted yet in in this instance very few of the people who are locked up in st.

Genevieve have committed a crime other than the status crime of still being in the process of trying to get legal papers or whatever and so I think that the church ought to be allowed in and give communion in these people and and of course that opens the whole thing up to well if the Catholics can do it how about the Seventh -day Adventists how about Muslims and I would say yes I think that the religious people of all sort ought to have access to these particular inmates and just point of order when you visit the inmates and you have how do you communicate with them in person well no no I mean this is all behind a plexiglass and actually when I was down there last time I couldn't see the person I was there to see because he had just seen his minister but the minister like everybody else had to talk you know there's plexiglass here plexiglass here and plexiglass here I mean there's no privacy or anything right and it's you know as you mentioned in one of your stories Charlie it's easier to visit a prisoner in one of our high security prisons where you can actually sit at the table with the guy in the cafeteria and chat than it is to see these people well and I thought that st.

Genevieve I thought the sheriff's department made it very clear that this is not an ice issue that this is you know that all of this is taking place at this at the sheriff's department at the at the at the detention center in jail the you know the fact that you can't have communion I don't know what the the tenants are of all of these other Protestant denominations but it has to be administered by a priest or a deacon if you are a Roman Catholic I understand I do understand respectfully Archbishop that if you are if you are trying to hear confession or if you're in there is no privacy that's the seal of confession is another that is that is another sacred part of the Roman Catholic tradition but but when it comes to spiritual direction that it sounded like you know it could be sort of open-ended you know where I need the advice of the council of my you know my spiritual leader my my my deacon my priest I could see where that would be very difficult I agreed with Wendy I think the suit was a little broad yeah I think there's a way to work out so that mass can be held if it's done in a high security maximum security prison you can do it there to actually provide the mass every Sunday or Saturday what have you I think what the wording would exactly got my concern was and also pastoral care and counseling now you're talking about now no I mean at some point you have to understand they're in custody so this idea that you get full and free access to a religious person anytime you want but I believe as far as the sacraments which is the obligation that that there should be a way to accommodate that don't forget there was a Lutheran minister from st.

Louis who provided pastoral counseling to the Nazi war criminals in Germany I mean this goes way back your former colleague at the Post -Dispatch wrote a whole book on it I know I know I know I know I know here the jail for not allowing it okay yes then but so then you want jails to change and I'm saying I think they can accommodate them for the receiving of the sacraments and I'm blaming ice I'm saying that if ice is gonna put all these people in a detention center it's really incumbent upon ice to make sure to figure out a way to make it work are treated in a certain way well I mean I'm not supporting ice by any figment of the imagination I'm a close to it but if it's St.

Genevieve jail and this is their policy I don't you know not that I put people in that jail but I mean I I'm not giving them a pass but I don't think this is their fault look as long as our religions are treated the same I maybe you just have church day and obviously that would seem like that was Sunday and I'm not joking here Sunday is a very busy day for priests and pastors you probably would not a Sunday they have one day it's Monday from noon to 4 right okay and the priests get there at noon and the guards or the correction officers get around to 130 before the first person shows up well they can usually get to 4 on a Monday well I mean maybe you do like groups or something like that Mitchell Rosansky Archbishop for st.

Louis has said that he has celebrated mass and met with prisoners in Maryland and Massachusetts and he's just he can't understand why the rules are so strict here I can understand what you talked about when you said pastoral care if you need advice or kindly you can have that the problem comes in confession the actual sacrament of confession because the phone calls are recorded and communion so but if you're just asking for advice there is nothing that stops a priest or to go down there and do it on the phone it simply comes to the sacrament of communion the Eucharist and confession and anointing and anointing and anointing of the staff yeah okay so I think they can work their way around it I just think the suit basically said we just kind of want free access for anything religious and that's where I probably think a line could be drawn bill I want to move on to the next topic with you and your opinion in st.

Louis County there's a measure on the November ballot which would increase property taxes five cents per $100 costing about $20 per home that's valued at $200,000 and the money would benefit senior services are you in favor of this no I think it's a terrible idea I really do I mean I like old people but if we were gonna try to help some age group in particular in my mind it would be young people who are trying to buy their first home families getting started and I think the idea that we're going to now come up with services to help people stay in their homes by sending you hey I can't say my home unless I have somebody come into my home and take care of me you know I'm grateful for Medicare I'm grateful for Social Security but I think that that's far as it ought to go that is really veering into social services that that you know where you're are you a are you a government agency are you you know are you representing the people or are you trying to give them a certain kind of lifestyle I mean everybody wants to stay in their house that doesn't that's not and I don't I mean we're all facing that eventually you know that we do there comes a time when you just can't stay in your house and I understand that that is optimal but these are things for the family not the government to decide I the problem I have with it is I think this there's no way that this would not be beneficial to people who could probably afford this themselves I I just don't see how you winnow out this group or that group you can't do it by zip code you can't do it by that and so that would be my you know concern it's not like the tax is overwhelming but I just don't think there's any way that you could administratively get this done I'm not heartless but they do it in Massachusetts I have an idea on if we're looking to get people more money how about just a wholesale cutting of taxes how about that as a remedy for the seniors I mean the idea is is it seems like the argument is always do we keep tax or the same or let's add a new tax let's add a new tax I'm opposed to this tax like I'm opposed to most taxes what if the county had demonstrated better ability at administering the Animal Control Center the jail other issues would you then be in favor of providing services for the the agent you make a good five and oh all right you make or indigent well if you said a over 85 an indigent and didn't live in LeDoux or something like that or Chesterfield you know like then maybe I could say but there's no way there's just no way to monitor that everybody started out living in an apartment right and and it may be that at the end you have to get an apartment and you know maybe it's a fancy one or maybe not but I don't think you can expect the state to cover you to keep you and I am so uncomfortable with this this this 60 it's like a 60 year old way too young you're right that's that doesn't make any sense I agree 66 is the new 36 I'm just hard to hear all this talk of keeping government out of our private life so the Post's patches had a number of stories on the city of Kirkwood Elvin Reid I think it's Seth Nelson who's all over Kirkwood like a like white on rice so he's taking a look at the Kirkwood Performing Arts Center where stages is it's hemorrhaging cash he also found out that the deal between Kirkwood City officials and stages seem to have some conflicts of interest but wait wait there's more because Billy G's where you and I have actually met yeah past right apparently the music outside is too loud for downtown Kirkwood and so people want to maybe close down Billy G's at what 6 30 p.m.

or something well it turned turn the volume down right and it's four hands across the street to those two entities all right so you know you read all these stories and you would think that Kirkwood was in trouble but Kirkwood is not in trouble we're we just kind of just working our way through some things right now okay then you just prove that denial is not just a river in Egypt because Kirkwood is in serious trouble there nobody has been minding the store a lot of decisions have been made I will I'll step aside and let you argue but there are there are huge and in this topsy-turvy world the rest of us sort of look to Kirkwood and Webster Groves these beautiful places that are like frozen in time so this is yet another sort of topsy-turvy thing that we don't need then we blame you how about that utility Elvin okay you've got you've got to decide whether are you in the nightlife and development and utility business or are you in the governance business well now wait a minute now you could be in all three all right now let's take one at a time okay okay Pat the board Russ Hall's daughter being on this board while making decisions bad Mike Gibbons being on the board I think he was on the board before his wife became mayor she was a council person it's volunteer it's position I got no problem with that as for the noise abatement Billie Jean's forehands okay listen people who live near there all right fluent houses that's a fluent neighborhood and I think it's kind of kind of you know like we don't like the noise but really is it that loud to me and I don't think yacht rock is like Sammy Hagar like you know crashing the whole but who's got the vision Alvin because when it came to the Kirkwood Performing Arts Center they were all about a vibrant downtown scene as long as you don't make too much well can I go through his issues and I'll start in reverse order it's nice to know that Billy Jesus become the data center it's another NIMBY issue they don't have a problem with the music they have a problem with the music right there by their house I agree with you okay as far as councilwoman now Mayor Gibbons she just shouldn't have voted she should not have voted even though her husband was on the board and it's volunteer and I've dealt with Mike Gibbons I've talked with my Gibbons I know him you just can't vote okay you can say you can extol the virtues of whatever it is you're doing you say but my husband serves on the board y'all do what you want to do I do agree with you the City Administrator you couldn't get more wrong she was a marketing assistant she wasn't the lead in the play so it was your first job it was a nice first job but well I will say remember when Liz Gibbons was in the Business Journal and she said oh at Kirkwood we want to become the next Clayton maybe she does now one other thing whatever thing 10 seconds the stages thing that's a bad weird and somebody should have been everything now we're not making deals that are bad for the city as much as we want to maybe keep them that needs to be restructured immediately or they post dispatches on it so I can't wait for the next chapter in the next place yeah next stages musical will be how to succeed succeed in business without really trying okay Oh let's go to the old mailbag and see what people have to say about last week's show in David McCullough's biography of Harry Truman he describes how Truman worked tirelessly tirelessly to get the facts on bills related to utilities railroads railroads and workers rights spending hours in the Library of Congress doing his own research I wonder if our junior senator even knows where the library is located that from Andrew G Podleski of st.

Louis we also heard from Jim Zemanick of Webster do any panel members really believe that Symington Eagleton Danforth Bond Ashcroft McCaskill or blunt would have made such an outrageous error and brought humiliation to our state and then blame their stabs no Eric Schmidt is in a league of his own you can write us care of 9 PBS 3655 Olive Street 63 108 don't forget those emails as well as social media and listen to us on your favorite podcast source wherever you are we've got a program it's called last call the topics we couldn't get to in the first 30 or so minutes you can find it on the Donnybrook YouTube channel and this week we'll talk about how there's a lot of discussion on whether st.

Louis can learn from Kansas City's downtown we'll broach that topic and we hope you join us thanks for joining us we'll see you next week at this time Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS